He said:

The same holds true for Neal and Peter; they rarely lie

Neal doesn't rarely lie to Peter--he lies to him about once an ep. Peter doesn't lie to Neal. He brutalises him with the truth, in fact. Keeps him in check with it.

I agree with him that arcs don't hinge on lies being believed, but I think it's mischaracterising the relationship to say they're rarely told.

I know he's very attached to Neal being a good little sub, but he's not that good.

Fair point. I was focusing on his point about how it's not the lies that drive the plot. They are there, but because Peter almost always knows about them, they are pretty secondary to the plot arc.

At a certain level I agree with that reading, in that it's true that there are often plot points relying on stupid lies, and that's not true in this show. But that's just better writing, I think. I don't think it necessarily implies a dom/sub relationship insofar as that goes.

I think the relationship is more complex than that. Neal is often trying to subvert what Peter is trying to do. And at least at a certain point in the season we, and Neal as our POV character, were unclear on Peter's intentions and loyalties. I think it's that tug of war that make their relationship dynamic and interesting.

I absolutely have no idea where they'll take the sexual relationship next season.

I agree with him that arcs don't hinge on lies being believed, but I think it's mischaracterising the relationship to say they're rarely told.

Yeah, I kind of skimmed past that aspect of it.

But that's just better writing, I think. I don't think it necessarily implies a dom/sub relationship insofar as that goes.

It's a slightly radical interpretation of the text. I can see it, but I agree it's not the whole story.

Finally saw the WC finale. Whew! Naked Neal in the pool, naked Neal sculpting, naked Neal touching the little naked man statue, El getting mad, Peter punching Fowler for El, long looks of angst-ridden love, Neal's goodbye gift to El, poor Moz, please let that bitch Kate be really dead, and lord lord Peter RAN to the airport to say goodbye to Neal and Neal CRIED over leaving him, lord. What would Neal have done if the choice hadn't been taken away? I think he would have left and regretted it forever. Especially after he found out that Kate didn't love him. Well, except for that he'd've been dead. No slashier show has ever aired.

Pffft. Gus and Shawn are brotherly. These two would be Doing It if Peter weren't married.

Truth. They could be doing it anyway; Elizabeth would so be in. What other wife would accept her husband's pet criminal and their obsession with each other as a totally normal part of their relationship? *less than 3* OT3!

Accept? Hell, El was pushing Peter towards Neal at the start. That's why I didn't see the OT3 in the start--I saw her as an eager voyeuse, though.

Accept? Hell, El was pushing Peter towards El at the start.

Towards Neal?

Der. Yes. Editing.

That's because El wants Neal too! And she knows she can't get him unless Peter has him first/too. El has Plans for them, oh yes she does.

Well, there was that bit where Peter came home to find Neal ensconced comfortably in his house with El. I mean, El definitely likes Neal.

But somehow I don't know that I see them actually going with the OT3. I see them playing the tension.

Which is why I think Neal was getting on that plane. It was all the shapes of traditional relationships that he thought he had to revert to. He needed Kate for that perceived normal happiness, and he wouldn't step between Peter and El without blessing, leaving them to their perceived normal happiness. And I don't see that they've actually gone there yet.

What I do love about El is how secure she is in herself, which is again why the finale was so difficult, with them going after her, with her being vulnerable because of them. And Peter and Neal both coming to her defense in their own ways. But somehow it didn't ring the damsel in distress bells with me. Just that she means so much to them, and if you're going to hurt them, of course you're going to go through her.