If you go back and look at who has made complaints: me, Kat, Elena, Allyson, Steph, etc--we aren't Stompies.

The etc. is also an eclectic group including people like PMM, Nutty, Jessica, Holli, Jilli. And, intriguingly this is a group of people who don't always agree on anything. Which is not to say that I don't admire people on that list, just that we don't often see eye to eye. Which is my roundabout way of saying that the list is diverse enough to indicate a problem.

I will speak for myself. I'm not caring if she's banned or not. But what I want is a Community Level response. If someone wants to call the Stompies on me, okay. Fine. And if it happened it would cause some soul searching about my behavior and, I hope, a change.

Yes, people are rude to Zoe. But you know what, when Allyson was rude, people said "That's wrong," her knuckles got smacked, she apologized and explained and that was that. Allyson took some responsibility for her actions and how they affected not just the poster but the community.

Granted, Allyson also has a surplus of social capital which allows her to do the outrageous and be mostly forgiven. But she has the social capital because she hasn't pissed off, offended or made people frustrated and angry.

Undoubtedly I've pissed off Jon (and others) with my anti-preferential voting rant. But I care enough that I'm thinking about how to repair the relationship. That's what community members do.

Also, you know what, we aren't a government, a democracy, a judicial system or a sovereign nation. We are a private entity, a group of people who come together for X, Y, Z. We needn't tolerate behavior which many in the collective find annoying, strange and off putting.

t deletia

"Toss it in -- and help yourself to a marshmallow. History is being cruel to you today." ~ Kathleen Dexter, The Fifth Life of the Catwoman.

When other community members feel like they're asking for an enforcement of the etiquette, well, we have a problem.

Might be partially because it doesn't happen often. Which, when you think about it, ISN'T a problem.

Might be partially because it doesn't happen often.

I disagree. Speaking from my experience, I was all squirmy about asking because it is a direct opposition to the community wide DNFTEC plan and because I feel like it marks me a not nice person. Which, oddly, is not something I relish.

Yeah, you know, I was getting pretty annoyed with Schmoker, but I didn't read Bureaucracy, so I didn't know he got banned. But he too had his moments. I guess that's why we have to have so much discussion, because if ALL someone's posts were offensive, it'd be easy to say "ban 'em".

So it sounded like we have a procedure for warning and banning, but what about initiating the process? Maybe if x number of people vote in Bureaucracy to do it? Or x%? There has to be a way of doing it that won't be easy to corrupt or otherwise use unfairly. Maybe if the number of objectionable posts goes above x?

I can't tell you the trepidation I felt when I asked if anyone else thought that mieskye and Schmoker were the same person.

And, really, the standards exist, they get pointed out, they get ignored, there's a warning.

I felt uncomfortable, not because it doesn't happen often, but because I was afraid that my request for an enforement of etiquette would be seen as a breach of etiquette.

That is a problem.

Which is my roundabout way of saying that the list is diverse enough to indicate a problem.

Add me to that list.

Frankly, I'm behind in a lot of threads, and addressing Zoe's posts seems moot by the time I get to them, or it feels like I'm yelling, "Burn the witch! Burn the witch!"

No, she didn't turn me into a newt.

Zoe has posted things both with, and most importantly without, provocation that have been rude. If I posted what she posts, I would most definitely expect a bad-behavior check from someone -- and I devoutly hope that should I post something as jackassian as she sometimes posts, someone would ask me to Doblerize my freak ass.

In fact, please do.

If we had MARCIE, I would put Zoe on it. I most certainly do not agree with every Buffista posting here, but I think we've always managed to disagree in a civilized manner. But with Zoe, I understand no rhyme or reason, and she raises my blood pressure to an unhealthy degree.

I don't find her behavior within acceptable parameters most of the time. Should she be banned? No, of course not. Should someone ask her to rethink her posting habits? Yeah, I definitely think so.

I think the disconnect I'm seeing is that people don't seem to consider their responses to Zoe as rude. I'm afraid I feel differently.

I'm going to agree with Victor here. A lot. And I think a pile-on from the cool kids (ie-- vetrans) is wrong even if someone has it coming.

Now, if the "deliberately stirrs poo" theory is correct a warning is just going to be a triumph.

If the "some sort of mental gap" theory is correct (which is my thinking too, smonster) a warning won't do any good. No, a delay or whatever doesn't excuse anti-social behaivor, but sometimes it explains it. And sometimes it makes bad behaivors unavoidable.

Either way, I think the best course of action is just to scroll past what pisses you off.

I felt uncomfortable, not because it doesn't happen often, but because I was afraid that my request for an enforement of etiquette would be seen as a breach of etiquette.

That is a problem.

Exactly - people shouldn't have to ask (or be afraid to ask) for the rules to be enforced. The rules should be self-enforcing. Of course that means endless discussion and voting, Buffista-style. Not that there's anything wrong with that. (See thread title.)

[ETA:

I think the disconnect I'm seeing is that people don't seem to consider their responses to Zoe as rude. I'm afraid I feel differently.

Actually, I think people know their responses to her are rude - they are tired of asking nicely and getting a rude response.]

Xpost with Elena! A first! [/natter]