I don't understand how either the words of a troll or the discussion can kill anyone. I am not trying to stop people from feeling that way, but I honestly don't see where the feeling comes from. I scroll if it gets boring, and I assume Buffistas who get hot with each other will find a way to Doblerize, as has always happened so far. The conflict in this commmunity has been very civilized and polite, thank God, and I hope we can keep it that way. People sometimes get short with each other but they always find their way back to understanding eventually.

Discussion is also extensive and rambling, but I just don't see the harm in that. Sure the endless discussion gets tedious as hell, but then don't read it. The fact that Buffistas need to analyze a thing to death is part of the way we approach anything--be it corsets, grammar, or one specific line from an episode.

As for Anathema, I think he came in to stir up trouble, was banned, came back to stir up MORE trouble and found himself actually getting to know the board, to dig the Buffistas, and to like being here. For this reason I am not angry at him. He stayed around long enough to find out he would like to be a member of this community, but he lied so he can't. He screwed himself royally, and he doesn't need any help from me. He should not have come back, and his exile from the board feels like perfect punishment for him--even worse now that he KNOWS what he's missing.

Allyson, I gather that what you like about the TWoP system is that it is a no-muss, no-fuss, no-drama sort of system, correct?

No, I don't -- I'm just saying that the very name of TWoP, at this point, provokes a shudder and a cry of "unclean! unclean!" from more than a few Buffistas, and so it's not a good place to be holding up as an example to be followed, you know?

And you think that we'd do that?

No, I don't. I just think that using TWOP as an example might make some people have unpleasant associations (since they stomped jengod). So I wanted to make sure that we didn't have those.

And I guess, today, that Michele and I are the same person.

Real trolls aren't a threat to community Zen, because they manage to build a great consensus against themselves.

Haven't you ever encountered a troll with patience, one who gets in and tries to destroy from there? I have, and I am not currently sure we'd survive one.

I don't mean to get all paranoid, and perhaps troll is a misleading term, because I've seen it also happen when an established member of a community gets all Angelus with some Yoko Factor thrown in for fun.

I just hope we're strong enough for that, is all.

As for empowerment? I'd barely trust myself with the power. I don't think it's us, for good or for ill. Salon worked, as much as it did, because they were a company with employed Stompies. Similarly, TWOP has the authoritarian framework to do that. I dunno, we're too busy acting egalitarian to go there without doing damage in the process -- pre-emptive damage, at that.

Allyson, I gather that what you like about the TWoP system is that it is a no-muss, no-fuss, no-drama sort of system, correct?

Yep.

I don't mean to get all paranoid, and perhaps troll is a misleading term, because I've seen it also happen when an established member of a community gets all Angelus with some Yoko Factor thrown in for fun.

This is the only way I've ever seen it go down. And it's nasty.

I think there are some people here who might. I don't think 98% of the people would, but there are certainly some who I could see going overboard.

I think that could be worked against by the E.P.s having to discuss what they did amongst themselves, and by cycling people through the role on a relatively short term.

I don't think it's us, for good or for ill.

And I don't think what Bureaucracy has turned into is us, and I can only see it getting less-us if there isn't some actual enforcement of community standards.