And you think that we'd do that?
No, I don't. I just think that using TWOP as an example might make some people have unpleasant associations (since they stomped jengod). So I wanted to make sure that we didn't have those.
Mal: So we run. Nandi: I understand, Captain Reynolds. You have your people to think of, same as me. And this ain't your fight. Mal: Don't believe you do understand, Nandi. I said 'we run'. We.
'Heart Of Gold'
Bureaucracy 1: Like Kafka, Only Funnier
A thread to discuss naming threads, board policy, new thread suggestions, and anything else that has to do with board administration and maintenance. Guaranteed to include lively debate and polls. Natter discouraged, but not deleted.
Current Stompy Feet: ita, Jon B, DXMachina, P.M. Marcontell, Liese S., amych
Sophia Brooks - Mar 19, 2003 9:30:46 am PST #7992 of 10001
Cats to become a rabbit should gather immediately now here
Sophia Brooks - Mar 19, 2003 9:31:56 am PST #7993 of 10001
Cats to become a rabbit should gather immediately now here
And I guess, today, that Michele and I are the same person.
§ ita § - Mar 19, 2003 9:33:44 am PST #7994 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Real trolls aren't a threat to community Zen, because they manage to build a great consensus against themselves.
Haven't you ever encountered a troll with patience, one who gets in and tries to destroy from there? I have, and I am not currently sure we'd survive one.
I don't mean to get all paranoid, and perhaps troll is a misleading term, because I've seen it also happen when an established member of a community gets all Angelus with some Yoko Factor thrown in for fun.
I just hope we're strong enough for that, is all.
As for empowerment? I'd barely trust myself with the power. I don't think it's us, for good or for ill. Salon worked, as much as it did, because they were a company with employed Stompies. Similarly, TWOP has the authoritarian framework to do that. I dunno, we're too busy acting egalitarian to go there without doing damage in the process -- pre-emptive damage, at that.
Allyson - Mar 19, 2003 9:34:55 am PST #7995 of 10001
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica
Allyson, I gather that what you like about the TWoP system is that it is a no-muss, no-fuss, no-drama sort of system, correct?
Yep.
P.M. Marc - Mar 19, 2003 9:35:31 am PST #7996 of 10001
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear
I don't mean to get all paranoid, and perhaps troll is a misleading term, because I've seen it also happen when an established member of a community gets all Angelus with some Yoko Factor thrown in for fun.
This is the only way I've ever seen it go down. And it's nasty.
Michele T. - Mar 19, 2003 9:35:48 am PST #7997 of 10001
with a gleam in my eye, and an almost airtight alibi
I think there are some people here who might. I don't think 98% of the people would, but there are certainly some who I could see going overboard.
I think that could be worked against by the E.P.s having to discuss what they did amongst themselves, and by cycling people through the role on a relatively short term.
Michele T. - Mar 19, 2003 9:38:54 am PST #7998 of 10001
with a gleam in my eye, and an almost airtight alibi
I don't think it's us, for good or for ill.
And I don't think what Bureaucracy has turned into is us, and I can only see it getting less-us if there isn't some actual enforcement of community standards.
Connie Neil - Mar 19, 2003 9:40:53 am PST #7999 of 10001
brillig
I could never do the job, not with the debates. I could shut someone down who came in shrieking obscenities and laying waste, I could do that in a cold second. But once debate enters the equation, I start seeing the other person's side and wanting to engage and try to get them to see the possible error of their ways. I'd make a great hit man, taking out strangers at a distance. Once I see them as a person, though, I'm all "Can't we all just get along?"
Jessica - Mar 19, 2003 9:41:24 am PST #8000 of 10001
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset
I've seen it also happen when an established member of a community gets all Angelus with some Yoko Factor thrown in for fun.
Yep, me too. That's what destroyed the last Buffista-like community I was a member of.
Fred Pete - Mar 19, 2003 9:42:50 am PST #8001 of 10001
Ann, that's a ferret.
I agree with Michele that the current system isn't working. And there's some appeal to her proposal. But I think it needs some changes. I'm not comfortable with giving any one person the power to suspend anyone for 2 months. That's a lot of power, and it works only if every e.p. uses that power responsibly. And we can't guarantee that.
I think this would improve her plan:
(1) A small number of e.p.s serving at any one time (say, 5 or 7).
(2) Stagger the terms of e.p.s, so there's some continuity from month to month.
(3) No person may serve more than one term as an e.p. in any 12-month period.
(4) Any two e.p.s may suspend any poster for up to 7 days. The e.p.s must inform the suspended person of the conduct resulting in the suspension, including the thread and specific posts.
(5) Any one e.p. may suspend any poster for 0 days, subject to the same limitations described in (4). (In effect, this is an Official Warning system.)
(6) A majority of all e.p.s may recommend a suspension of more than 7 days or a complete ban. The recommendation must be posted in the Bureaucracy thread and is subject to debate and vote under the applicable Buffista rules. The proposal ultimately put up for vote may offer a choice of multiple sanctions, and need not include the sanction recommended by the e.p.s. Voters must be allowed to vote for "no sanction."
I can't say I like this option. But the town meeting format is causing too many feelings to be hurt too deeply. And some form of e.p.s may be the lesser of evils.