No, I don't -- I'm just saying that the very name of TWoP, at this point, provokes a shudder and a cry of "unclean! unclean!" from more than a few Buffistas, and so it's not a good place to be holding up as an example to be followed, you know?

And you think that we'd do that?

No, I don't. I just think that using TWOP as an example might make some people have unpleasant associations (since they stomped jengod). So I wanted to make sure that we didn't have those.

And I guess, today, that Michele and I are the same person.

Real trolls aren't a threat to community Zen, because they manage to build a great consensus against themselves.

Haven't you ever encountered a troll with patience, one who gets in and tries to destroy from there? I have, and I am not currently sure we'd survive one.

I don't mean to get all paranoid, and perhaps troll is a misleading term, because I've seen it also happen when an established member of a community gets all Angelus with some Yoko Factor thrown in for fun.

I just hope we're strong enough for that, is all.

As for empowerment? I'd barely trust myself with the power. I don't think it's us, for good or for ill. Salon worked, as much as it did, because they were a company with employed Stompies. Similarly, TWOP has the authoritarian framework to do that. I dunno, we're too busy acting egalitarian to go there without doing damage in the process -- pre-emptive damage, at that.

Allyson, I gather that what you like about the TWoP system is that it is a no-muss, no-fuss, no-drama sort of system, correct?

Yep.

I don't mean to get all paranoid, and perhaps troll is a misleading term, because I've seen it also happen when an established member of a community gets all Angelus with some Yoko Factor thrown in for fun.

This is the only way I've ever seen it go down. And it's nasty.

I think there are some people here who might. I don't think 98% of the people would, but there are certainly some who I could see going overboard.

I think that could be worked against by the E.P.s having to discuss what they did amongst themselves, and by cycling people through the role on a relatively short term.

I don't think it's us, for good or for ill.

And I don't think what Bureaucracy has turned into is us, and I can only see it getting less-us if there isn't some actual enforcement of community standards.

I could never do the job, not with the debates. I could shut someone down who came in shrieking obscenities and laying waste, I could do that in a cold second. But once debate enters the equation, I start seeing the other person's side and wanting to engage and try to get them to see the possible error of their ways. I'd make a great hit man, taking out strangers at a distance. Once I see them as a person, though, I'm all "Can't we all just get along?"

I've seen it also happen when an established member of a community gets all Angelus with some Yoko Factor thrown in for fun.

Yep, me too. That's what destroyed the last Buffista-like community I was a member of.