What Cindy Said.

Also, I am weirded out that Burrell was right about the yes votes. And a little irritated that we're counting "no preferance". But I am leting it go.

I too, was sure Schmoker was meiske and remained sure about it even as Anathema. But there was this point where I couldn't sustain it any more. I just thought, after he changed to Anathema that I would let it go and just let him be a new person. I never really talked much to him, because a) I was embroiled in democracy and b) I didn't like that I knew he was meiskie.

But I really understand John's righteous anger. It sucks to be the one who is following the rules. I have a very long story involving a theatre that a friend and I started (and ran for about 5 years), where he never followed any rules and everyone loved hime, meanwhile I was following all the rules plus cleaning up messes, and everyone thought I was a right bitch, but I won't tell that story because it is really long and not posting board related. But I got to this point that everytime he got caught in a lie I wanted to jump up and down saying"Don't you see! He's a liar!!!!" Eventually I left that theatre, that I built with my money and time and expertise. That I let him take the credit for directing all of his shows alone when I was always there to back him up, coach his actors and fix things. I left. And that sucked. So John-- I completely and totally understand how you are feeling, but I can't feel like that her, because I can't feel like that again

X-post form Natter.

I was just googling my name. Just my first and last name get eight hits, all of which are me.

The distressing part of that were that the first two hits were messages from our Buffistas Yahoo! Mailing list.

That's very squicksome for me. Can we do anything to the group to make it still accessible to all Buffista who want to access it, but prevent it from being googlable?

John, I'm not going to have an opinion on the m/S/A thing - I genuinely don't give a fuck. he/she/it pissed me off, but there are lots of buffistas that do that - I'm intolerant. I wanted to say, though, that I've missed you, and your absurd Mac-geekery, and your generally sunny attitude, and your Morecombe and Wise routines with Mandible Girl, and it's good to have you back around.

You know what, if meiskie had waited out his two months and then come back here and behaved the way he did when used the name Schmoker, I probably would have been more receptive to him and given him a second chance.

If meiskie had waited the two months, and then come back as Schmoker and concealed the connection I'd have been all right with it, if it would have eventually come out.

I have a request. People can ignore it if they want. It's not an order. Just a request.

The "if he had done such & such differently" speculations are not helpful. Dwelling on how much we liked him or didn't like him and whether or not we're offended and how much and for what reasons and in which incarnations is not helpful. It's past. It's done. He's gone. We're not. Let's move on.

If people want to pause in our voting about how to vote procedings and talk about procedures for dealing with trolls instead, I think that's about the only productive turn this conversation could take. Otherwise, we're just beating the same dead horse that's been rotting in the middle of the room for the past two and a half months.

I agree with Jess. Let's make this productive, if we can. That's the bureaucracy side of what happened, and less of the personal. What could we do differently in a similar situation? How could things be handled better?

This is what I'd like to know from the people who are upset -- not upset with m/S/A, but upset with how it went down, once it all started.

If this teeny not-quite-a-troll can cause this much damage, what happens if a real troll shows up? Can we be prepared? Is there anything we can do without damaging the community?

I don't think there is, ita. There are 2 options (well, three, but whiffle got quite rightly stomped). Either we stay consensual, and we discuss each case on it's merits, or the Stompy Feet become really Stompy. I reckon our current approach, which combines the two, is the only workable one.

If this teeny not-quite-a-troll can cause this much damage, what happens if a real troll shows up?

Well, a real troll did show up, IIRC--some Dark Angel fan who made a series of taunts about Firefly's cancellation. I think that spotting and dealing with a jackass of that nature is relatively easy.

It's the people who are more subtle in their trolling that will be harder to manage, IMO. I'm talking about people who like to poke the board with a verbal stick to stir up trouble, but who to their shit-disturbing in a way that allows them to state that they didn't mean to start any trouble.

ita, how would you define a "real troll," just out of curiosity?

If this teeny not-quite-a-troll can cause this much damage, what happens if a real troll shows up? Can we be prepared? Is there anything we can do without damaging the community?

I think the thing to do is to ride it out and have a good sense of humor, personally. Let it go. Accept that some people were just raised by wolves. Use your mental M.A.R.C.I.E. filter, and do not respond even if (ESPECIALLY if) your blood is boiling.

Because you know what? This is the Internet. Nine times out of 10, it Isn't Worth It to get into a stupid fight that will ruin your day and provide a little safe danger to some jackass in Indiana. It's not your job to educate and correct the behavior of everyone else-- you can only control yourself.

And if everyone does this -- if no one engages -- what you have is one lunatic talking to himself, and probably not having very much fun doing it.

It's harder in the short term to not respond, I know (and yes, DNFTEC IS responding. It shows that they're getting to you.). But long-run, it's healthier.