If meiskie had waited the two months, and then come back as Schmoker and concealed the connection I'd have been all right with it, if it would have eventually come out.

I have a request. People can ignore it if they want. It's not an order. Just a request.

The "if he had done such & such differently" speculations are not helpful. Dwelling on how much we liked him or didn't like him and whether or not we're offended and how much and for what reasons and in which incarnations is not helpful. It's past. It's done. He's gone. We're not. Let's move on.

If people want to pause in our voting about how to vote procedings and talk about procedures for dealing with trolls instead, I think that's about the only productive turn this conversation could take. Otherwise, we're just beating the same dead horse that's been rotting in the middle of the room for the past two and a half months.

I agree with Jess. Let's make this productive, if we can. That's the bureaucracy side of what happened, and less of the personal. What could we do differently in a similar situation? How could things be handled better?

This is what I'd like to know from the people who are upset -- not upset with m/S/A, but upset with how it went down, once it all started.

If this teeny not-quite-a-troll can cause this much damage, what happens if a real troll shows up? Can we be prepared? Is there anything we can do without damaging the community?

I don't think there is, ita. There are 2 options (well, three, but whiffle got quite rightly stomped). Either we stay consensual, and we discuss each case on it's merits, or the Stompy Feet become really Stompy. I reckon our current approach, which combines the two, is the only workable one.

If this teeny not-quite-a-troll can cause this much damage, what happens if a real troll shows up?

Well, a real troll did show up, IIRC--some Dark Angel fan who made a series of taunts about Firefly's cancellation. I think that spotting and dealing with a jackass of that nature is relatively easy.

It's the people who are more subtle in their trolling that will be harder to manage, IMO. I'm talking about people who like to poke the board with a verbal stick to stir up trouble, but who to their shit-disturbing in a way that allows them to state that they didn't mean to start any trouble.

ita, how would you define a "real troll," just out of curiosity?

If this teeny not-quite-a-troll can cause this much damage, what happens if a real troll shows up? Can we be prepared? Is there anything we can do without damaging the community?

I think the thing to do is to ride it out and have a good sense of humor, personally. Let it go. Accept that some people were just raised by wolves. Use your mental M.A.R.C.I.E. filter, and do not respond even if (ESPECIALLY if) your blood is boiling.

Because you know what? This is the Internet. Nine times out of 10, it Isn't Worth It to get into a stupid fight that will ruin your day and provide a little safe danger to some jackass in Indiana. It's not your job to educate and correct the behavior of everyone else-- you can only control yourself.

And if everyone does this -- if no one engages -- what you have is one lunatic talking to himself, and probably not having very much fun doing it.

It's harder in the short term to not respond, I know (and yes, DNFTEC IS responding. It shows that they're getting to you.). But long-run, it's healthier.

ita, how would you define a "real troll," just out of curiosity?

Not ita, but answering. To me, a real troll is someone who posts only to cause ill feelings or a fight, who never contributes anything but dischord. And who has fun doing this.

ita, how would you define a "real troll," just out of curiosity?

I don't have a clear definition, but ... from USENET, from TT, it's someone who's there to disrupt or destroy, quite on purpose. Not even someone who wants to change the community to match their own ideals, or who's abrasive and impatient, and doesn't have the same degree of civility to which we strive.

Some bust in like the Dark Angel person, others do it slower. I don't think we've had a persistent example of one yet, and I wonder if m/S/A can cause this much strife, how we'd deal with someone clever and bent on destruction.

And no, I don't mean technologically, or even rules-wise. I mean as people, and as a community.

I don't see much of an opening to change the rules -- but that's because I can't think of any better ones. I don't want power shifted, and I don't think we can outline enough scenarious without leaving our knickers showing somewhere else.

I'm just sad that the reverberation is still being felt, although I don't want to tell anyone they shouldn't be feeling what they're feeling. That would be absurd.

Mostly I hope we would be strong enough to resist or deflect any real onslaught that may come our way.

OK, so I just googled myself, and have a request: Can my last name come out of the FAQ? Thx.

Thank you for that post, Cindy.