OK this post is going to have everything in it I have left to say about mieskie.

• I thought the post that ita made on behalf of the admins was badly worded.
• I also think the decision to keep it quiet was a mistake. We should keep details of the horrible thing he did quiet because it was horrible? So people can be outraged and upset and disappointed in a small uneven trickle rather than all at once?
• The post from the admins told everyone that he had lied to us for months, and then spoke of his "sincere desire" not to cause any more conflict.
• I thought it was bizarre to be talking about the "sincere desires" of a person in the same sentence as making public the fact that he'd repeatedly lied to us. I would have just written "what he says is a sincere desire..."
• Not only did the wording seem to take his part, rather than being impartial -- let me make up my own mind how sincere the guy is please? -- people came here and posted that they were sorry that he had to go.
• I don't get how the "niceness" of Schmoker helps offset the horribleness of Mieskie. To me it makes it worse. Every damn post he made was another nail in the coffin.
• Every chance he had to make things better? He made them worse. Every chance he had to come clean? He told another lie.
• There are two viewpoints on his "hints" -- one is that he is just very very stupid and let them slip by accident; I can't believe that. I believe that he was doing it deliberately to mock and insult and unsettle us. He was doing something fundamentally mean-spirited and hateful and un-Buffista-like. He was doing that at the same time as appearing "nice". That doesn't make you feel sick? It does me.
• Do I believe that common courtesy no longer applies to someone who behaves like this? Damn right I do. He forefeited his right to common courtesy by lying to us repeatedly and insulting us. I have thrown people out of parties at my home in real life for insulting behaviour toward me and my friends, and I'll do it again. I didn't do it physically, but I didn't bother with "common courtesy" either. I said "you've gone over the limit, pal. Get the fuck out of my house".
• This last one is pretty much all just Emotional TMI. It's personal. Skip it if you want. But when the suspicions were being talked about at the end of January, the time I went away? That was because I got the very strong impression there were people who would rather have him around, mieskie-in-disguise or not, than have me here.
  I felt hated, I felt despised, I felt I couldn't be a Buffista any more. People talked about witch-hunts and the McCarthy era.
  I found that incredibly hurtful and insulting and unfair.
  A "witch hunt", ironically, isn't what we call a "witch hunt" if it results in the finding of an actual witch. This sounds childish, but I was right. He was doing what I said he was doing. There were people here who seemed to think I should be ashamed even of making those accusations -- and there still are.
  I'm getting the impression even now that people, rather than saying "oh well John might have gone about it the wrong way, but after all, it turns out he was right" are saying "even if he was right, he shouldn't have brought it up because it's upsetting -- it's better to just unpleasant situations and hope they go away".
  People would rather have Schmoker here than me? How the hell would you feel? I helped build this place, I put my own money and time into it, and I feel that I want to protect it. And those feelings are a source of shame and discomfort and embarassment to you? Maybe you'd better ban me, and invite him back. After all, it seems like you think I'm a troublemaker, and he "seemed like a nice guy..." But yet again, like Spike explaining Ben/Glory for the fourth or fifth time, I have to point this out. It's the seeming like a nice guy that gives me the creeps. Because he wasn't. He was Mieskie, who was banned to widespread acclaim, from the same people who are telling me to keep my feelings to myself now. I don't get it. I really, really don't get it.

the idea she's just simply in it because John pushed her behind him

I'm going to take a moment and check my reading comprehension. Where does "RL is backing John" imply that RL is doing with anything less than her own informed volition?

I don't get that stuff about Mieskie's "friends", PMM, I really don't.

John, from my POV, what upset me was not your opinion of Mieskie but your opinion that something was clearly wrong with those us of who dont' see the situation as you do.

RL, I'll take you at your word that it's not the current specific situation upsetting you but a desire to discuss this stuff on a more general level. In that case, from my perspective it's pretty clear that there's no way to do that right now without dragging in a lot of other stuff and it'll be divisive and counterproductive. YMMV.

And if it wasn't clear from my earlier posts, I do believe that he earned his suspension and banning and I don't believe he should be reinstated. I just don't have the personal animosity that some of us do, and I do believe that it's unfortunate things developed the way they did.

Edited to add:

If this also wasn't clear, now or back in January, never, ever did I feel that mieskie belonged here more than you did, or that it was anything approaching a fair trade him for you. If anything I said came off this way, then I sincerely apologize. I was delighted to see your return, and nothing going on here changes that. So again, I'm very, very sorry.

I'm going to take a moment and check my reading comprehension. Where does "RL is backing John" imply that RL is doing with anything less than her own informed volition?

I don't, in fact, have the right understanding of the word "backing"?

I should really, really go to bed? 

I don't, in fact, have the right understanding of the word "backing"?

My understanding of "backing" is supporting. What is yours?

RL, you usually back John.

Hec usually porns with Bitches.

These are usual things that happen, here, which illustrated other usual ways people deal with the rather not unusual Mieskes of the world.

Were you worried that people thought you were being a sheep? Because I'm sort of taken aback by the way you jumped to that conclusion. You sort of pulled it out of thin air.

What is yours?

Throwing weight behind. I... heard a "just" before the "backing" part.

Oh hell. Sorry.

That third-person thing is just so seductive.

Throwing weight behind

I think you can do that without being mindcontrolled too, you know.

Jumping in at the end to post here what I put already in Press. If you have any questions let me know. 'Night all. {{{All of ya}}}

94 voters total. Most the first day. Give you the breakdown for that sometime later.

edit - and it doesn't fit so try again.

HAHAHAHAHA!

42

Dude.

That's too perfect.

And, basically, what Brenda said. But man, 42.