I really can't over-emphasize The Yoko Factor here. Regardless of what we thought of it, he is gone and of his own choosing. I'm with Laura, let's drop it.

I really can't over-emphasize The Yoko Factor here.

Amen. He was a problem in every incarnation. Now he's gone. Let him be gone. We're having an excellent jock strap discussion in Natter. Come join that instead.

Okay, you know what? There has been enough. Enough hand wringing, enough finger wagging, enough misery. We've had ONE problem, ONE ban. It's unfortunate, I agree, but mieskie/Schmoker/Anaethma is not worth all the angst that has poured down on him! It's over. Can we let it go?

[eta significant crosspost with Cindy and Dana]

Nobody is saying anyone has to like him.

But saying that common courtesy doesn't apply to someone because of that?

I've already cried for a good solid hour over this when it first got brought up again. Please, let's let it go.

And no new thread. He wasn't that important.

I've had my say. So mote it be.

Yes, please. Come explain to me why jockstraps are buttless.

And no new thread. He wasn't that important.

A poor attempt at humor. But I just heard a rumor of a jockstrap discussion so I am outta here.

John, forgive me, but you weren't around during the time between the last Mieskie uproar and the current sitch. (And I'll say right off that the fact that you felt you needed to absent yourself is probably the one thing about this all that bothers me the most.) But. After the banning, and the subsequent taunting, which was quite offensive, Mieskie did come back under a new name, and demonstrated that what we'd tried to impress on him earlier actually had sunk in. Though he was still a little more confrontational than is the norm around here, he was quick to tone down or apologize when warranted, and his posts became more about the shows and the community than about trying to provoke a reaction.

I do think it's very unfortunate that none of these lessons could have been learned before we got into the unpleasantness surrounding the banning. And it's nobody's fault but his own that they didn't. I wish he had waited the two months and then returned, under whatever name. And I wish he hadn't felt the need to lie to people who asked him directly who he was. Again, these are actions for which he bears the responsibility, and he is now (rightly) paying the price.

But some of us learned to like him in the interim, some of us felt he brought a perspective to the board that was worth having. And his response to the stompies, that he did not choose to drive this community into turmoil again, tells me that he learned to like and understand us too. The mieskie we first knew would have been delighted to see the chaos and upset that his asking to be reinstated under his old identity would have caused.

I take that change of heart as genuine. I'm sorry that the fact that some of us wish the situation hadn't gone down this way, and believe that some acknowledgement of the changes we saw is due, is so upsetting to you. I really wish it wasn't so. But I'm equally upset at the notion that holding this perspective means we must've gone over to the dark side.

x-posty will all the people asking us to drop this, which I'm more than happy to do. Last word from me on this subject.

But the fact is John was put in an unpleasant situation where he basically had to take a hiatus. He was driven out. And it was Mieskes lies that did that. And he never made an apology for that. I wouldn't be rude about it; but I wouldn't want ending left thinking that Mieske was right because someone thinks it rude to link the explainaition too obviously.

ADAM: You feel smothered. Trapped like an animal. Pure in its ferocity, unable to actualize the urges within. Clinging to one truth. Like a flame struggling to burn within an enclosed glass. That a beast this powerful cannot be contained. Inevitably it will break free and savage the land again. I will make you whole again. Make you savage.

Spike: Wow. I mean, *yeah*. I get why the demons all fall in line with you. You're like Tony Robbins. If he was a big scary . . Frankenstein looking-- You're exactly like Tony Robbins.

ADAM: I will restore you to what you once were. When I have the Slayer . . . how and where I want her.

Spike: Easier said. She's crafty. Her and her little friends.

ADAM: Friends?

Spike: There's your --what do you call it-- variable. The Slayer's got pals. You want her evening the odds in a fight you don't want the Slayerettes mucking about.

ADAM: Take them away from her.

Spike: Now there's a plan. She's working solo, she won't have a chance to come after us when the wild rumpus begins. Plus, it will make her miserable. And I never get tired of that.

It's a long transcript with a lot of Spike lines. ijs