I've had my say. So mote it be.

Yes, please. Come explain to me why jockstraps are buttless.

And no new thread. He wasn't that important.

A poor attempt at humor. But I just heard a rumor of a jockstrap discussion so I am outta here.

John, forgive me, but you weren't around during the time between the last Mieskie uproar and the current sitch. (And I'll say right off that the fact that you felt you needed to absent yourself is probably the one thing about this all that bothers me the most.) But. After the banning, and the subsequent taunting, which was quite offensive, Mieskie did come back under a new name, and demonstrated that what we'd tried to impress on him earlier actually had sunk in. Though he was still a little more confrontational than is the norm around here, he was quick to tone down or apologize when warranted, and his posts became more about the shows and the community than about trying to provoke a reaction.

I do think it's very unfortunate that none of these lessons could have been learned before we got into the unpleasantness surrounding the banning. And it's nobody's fault but his own that they didn't. I wish he had waited the two months and then returned, under whatever name. And I wish he hadn't felt the need to lie to people who asked him directly who he was. Again, these are actions for which he bears the responsibility, and he is now (rightly) paying the price.

But some of us learned to like him in the interim, some of us felt he brought a perspective to the board that was worth having. And his response to the stompies, that he did not choose to drive this community into turmoil again, tells me that he learned to like and understand us too. The mieskie we first knew would have been delighted to see the chaos and upset that his asking to be reinstated under his old identity would have caused.

I take that change of heart as genuine. I'm sorry that the fact that some of us wish the situation hadn't gone down this way, and believe that some acknowledgement of the changes we saw is due, is so upsetting to you. I really wish it wasn't so. But I'm equally upset at the notion that holding this perspective means we must've gone over to the dark side.

x-posty will all the people asking us to drop this, which I'm more than happy to do. Last word from me on this subject.

But the fact is John was put in an unpleasant situation where he basically had to take a hiatus. He was driven out. And it was Mieskes lies that did that. And he never made an apology for that. I wouldn't be rude about it; but I wouldn't want ending left thinking that Mieske was right because someone thinks it rude to link the explainaition too obviously.

ADAM: You feel smothered. Trapped like an animal. Pure in its ferocity, unable to actualize the urges within. Clinging to one truth. Like a flame struggling to burn within an enclosed glass. That a beast this powerful cannot be contained. Inevitably it will break free and savage the land again. I will make you whole again. Make you savage.

Spike: Wow. I mean, *yeah*. I get why the demons all fall in line with you. You're like Tony Robbins. If he was a big scary . . Frankenstein looking-- You're exactly like Tony Robbins.

ADAM: I will restore you to what you once were. When I have the Slayer . . . how and where I want her.

Spike: Easier said. She's crafty. Her and her little friends.

ADAM: Friends?

Spike: There's your --what do you call it-- variable. The Slayer's got pals. You want her evening the odds in a fight you don't want the Slayerettes mucking about.

ADAM: Take them away from her.

Spike: Now there's a plan. She's working solo, she won't have a chance to come after us when the wild rumpus begins. Plus, it will make her miserable. And I never get tired of that.

It's a long transcript with a lot of Spike lines. ijs

I didn't have to do anything, Gar, I chose to do it. But thanks for your support.

OK I'm trying to remain calm here. Some points.

Each and every one of you who are here posting that it's a pity we had to ban him this time, I can go back to earlier times and cut-and-paste you posting how it was a good thing that we banned him the first time.

The rules say you get banned, you stay away, you get to come back. All he ever had to do was stay away, then come back. He came back, in violation of the ban, twice.

The Schmoker personality -- and here I feel like Spike explaining Ben/Glory, there is no Schmoker -- was just the third time he came back.

There are two viewpoints on what he did as Schmoker. He either deliberately dropped hints that he was Mieskie to annoy members of the board, or he was just very stupid. Either way it was destabilising.

The willingness of people to bend over backward to accomodate him tells me that if he had come clean, when challenged -- not just by me remember -- he would have been allowed to stay, after a time-out of some kind.

But he chose not to. He chose to get outraged and lie openly to us. At that point people were saying things like "OK John, are you satisfied now? Can we stop the witch-hunt?". And now those same people are still blaming me for causing conflict, and feeling sorry for him? That hurts so much.

PMM said he never lied to her. Yes he did. Every post was a lie, plus there was an open, public lie on Bureacracy. Which he has since deleted.

The rules say you get banned, you stay away, you get to come back. All he ever had to do was stay away, then come back. He came back, in violation of the ban, twice.

Yes. This.

I agree with Brenda, and with Plei. And, John, I'm sorry this situation bothers you so much. I think what's operating here is my Internet/real life divide -- I can tolerate basically anything on here as long as it's grammatical and not a direct attack on other posters. And he didn't harass us, he didn't scam us, he didn't even really flame us. He just stirred up some shit, more than is the norm around here. And he lied about who he was. Those are errors in judgement, sure, but they aren't on my list of Mortal Sins.

I'm sorry this is causing so much divisiveness, mostly. I wanna sing kumbaya or something.

Oh, and point of order?

I didn't take any major part in the banning of Mieskie or the decision.

I would a thousand time rather have an asshole in our midst who was openly, non-divisively saying things like

I kinda like being stomped. Not trying if you're not causing trouble.

and that he wanted a Betsy HP sexbot of his own to play with, than have an asshole in disguise going around "reassuring" people...

EDIT: My point is that he was better inside the tent pissing in than inside the tent pretending not to be pissing in.