Reread my first two sentences above, Jess.

If abstentions aren't counted as votes, then why are they even on the ballot?

MVT.

So we have many abstaining issues...

Does an abstain count toward a minimum number of voters? My gut says no. Abstaining to me ( and dictionary .com) means 1. To refrain from something by one's own choice: abstain from traditional political rhetoric. See Synonyms at refrain1. 2. To refrain from voting: Forty senators voted in favor of the bill, 45 voted against it, and 15 abstained.

Maybe we need to make an option of:

"Thinks the item needs further discussion" or "Thinks item should be decided, but doesn't like the options?

Does abstain count toward a majority? Also, I think no. Becuase abstaining is not voting.

And most importantly, we have to agree on what abstain means.

I think abstaining was only on the ballot as a mistake. I think it was included becuase there were multiple issues and some people might not care for all of them.

I voted for voting and I'm pretty much on the verge of swearing off any participation in future votes because I am sick to death of this thread and all the debate. I don't like it and I don't want to read it. But I feel like I'm supposed to in order to be a "good community member" or whatever.

Me too.

Honestly, I'd recommend TAKING A WEEK OFF from both discussions and voting. It's the immediate leap to MORE VOTES!!! that is pushing my buttons. Can't we just let things lie for a week and then move on to the next voting issue?

Does an abstain count toward a minimum number of voters? My gut says no.

This was one of the questions proposed for the second ballot, upthread.

Even I'm getting the headspins and the déjà vu now...

How about we deal with the MVT question first?

We've got two proposals: a 10-65 deathmatch, though some are arguing to tweak the numbers a little, and a 10,20,30,40,50,60 preferential vote.

This was one of the questions proposed for the second ballot, upthread.

I know. I am just discussing.

I am not even sure if we can deal with the whole ballot right now.

Obviously we are all working from different definitions of abstain.

Oh jeez, now we need to define the definition of abstain too?!? Abstain means you AREN'T VOTING, hence your vote isn't counted in the total. Or what, are we gonna have our own special meaning for the term?

Unfortunately, John, I don't think we can have an informed vote about voter turnout if we don't know if abstains count. I think they both need to be discussed simaltaneously.