Jayne: That's a good idea. Good idea. Tell us where the stuff's at so I can shoot you. Mal: Point of interest? Offering to shoot us might not work so well as an incentive as you might imagine.

'Out Of Gas'


Bureaucracy 1: Like Kafka, Only Funnier  

A thread to discuss naming threads, board policy, new thread suggestions, and anything else that has to do with board administration and maintenance. Guaranteed to include lively debate and polls. Natter discouraged, but not deleted.

Current Stompy Feet: ita, Jon B, DXMachina, P.M. Marcontell, Liese S., amych


Wolfram - Feb 27, 2003 4:16:09 pm PST #5894 of 10001
Visilurking

jengod is me, except item 6 is backwards.


billytea - Feb 27, 2003 4:17:33 pm PST #5895 of 10001
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

I understand that Borda and Condorcet and Australian are "simple", but they don't seem it. They give me a headsche and they aren't transperent (and I took a whole course on hem at college1)

I can understand this. I mean, these systems are devised to be fair, to avoid certain distortions, and they do so by creating mathematical formulae that are not everyone's cup of tea.

But seriously, all a user needs to know is what they do to register a vote, and then what it does in principle. For instance, I'd describe the Australian system thus:

1. Each voter ranks all the candidates in order of preference.
2. The system works out the two most popular candidates, and then finds which one of them most voters prefer. That candidate wins.

Yes, the maths is more complicated than that. But to the user, that's not such an issue. All the maths talk is so much geekery (which is why I've been doing it, of course). For anyone else, I think the above is all that's needed to understand it.


jengod - Feb 27, 2003 4:17:58 pm PST #5896 of 10001

7.) If there are more than three choices regarding any particular issue (thread titles come to mind), a [fill in blank] of votes wins the day.

(If we stay with the three day voting period, this makes sense. Otherwise, we're going to be having about a billion ballots before we get to a thread name, etc.)


Sophia Brooks - Feb 27, 2003 4:18:01 pm PST #5897 of 10001
Cats to become a rabbit should gather immediately now here

Can you think of an example where it wouldn't be possible? I can't think of anything we've decided recently that was more than a "should we do this?" question.

Unfortunately, yes. Spoiler policy for Buffy and Angel cross pollination. Some people wanted 1 week, some the weekend, some 2 weeks, some "until the next show". What we could do is hope to hash that out in discussion and just vote for one choice, Only problem with that is that it might knock mentioning the policy out for 6 months--then we could vote again, except by that time Buffy is cancelled.


Wolfram - Feb 27, 2003 4:18:13 pm PST #5898 of 10001
Visilurking

It was for your own protection.

Don't say I didn't pretend I was civil.

I've got two months of TKD and a big trash-talking maw. Bring it.


jengod - Feb 27, 2003 4:19:02 pm PST #5899 of 10001

Okay, how about TWO deathmatches.

Two-item ballots:

1.) Simple majority
2.) Two-thirds majority

Three-plus item ballots:

1.) Plurality
2.) 50%+1


billytea - Feb 27, 2003 4:20:45 pm PST #5900 of 10001
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

Can you think of an example where it wouldn't be possible? I can't think of anything we've decided recently that was more than a "should we do this?" question.

Voter turnout was one such item mentioned: if we come to set an actual number, we may want more options than just 0 or 50 (for instance).

I recall a few discussions around here where more than two options have been proposed. This is one of them, for instance. But yes, to bleed some of the importance out of it, I would expect that most of the votes we take will be simple yes/no questions, and for those all the voting systems really boil down to the same thing.


DavidS - Feb 27, 2003 4:24:18 pm PST #5901 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

The reasons I support voting are that it will be easier to have a time limited discussion and even if people are upset by an outcome, they can CLEARLY SEE that they were outnumbered. This is why I think we have to work very hard to keep every vote understandable and as free of bureacratize as possible AND to keep the results transparent to math-phobes.

wants to kiss Sophia and buy her chocolate


Hil R. - Feb 27, 2003 4:25:34 pm PST #5902 of 10001
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

Some people wanted 1 week, some the weekend, some 2 weeks, some "until the next show".

I think that 1 week, the weekend, and "until the next show" were pretty much equivalent. People clarified "until the next show" to mean "until when the next show ought to be," which is equivalent to one week. The way I'd see it working would be, someone could propose that it get changed to one week. It gets discussed, a lot of people think that's too short a time, and gets voted down. Then, someone could propose two weeks, and we could discuss the pros and cons of that without having to deal with trying to figure out the time frame at the same time as trying to figure out whether we want it changed at all.

edit:

Voter turnout was one such item mentioned: if we come to set an actual number, we may want more options than just 0 or 50 (for instance).

I mentioned that in my original post as something that could be decided later if we end up needing to decide it. I don't really see why we need to decide on how we'll choose a number if we don't know yet that we're going to need to choose a number anyway.


jengod - Feb 27, 2003 4:26:05 pm PST #5903 of 10001

Also, for the imaginary future ballot we figure this out on... Quorum, defined as the number of vote (not voters) necessary to make a ballot valid, is:

1.) 10
2.) 25
3.) 50
4.) 100
5.) Abstain
6.) Write-in #: X

edit: sorry! was doing some self-editing, to keep things simple! 7) 8) were 5) 6)