unless their inaugural post was a masterpiece of snarky, pedantic analysis.

Speaking of which, whatever happened to the person whose inaugural Buffy post was an absolutely brilliantly funny anya?

billy deserves a hug. I apparently have vouchers for several.

Perhaps I'm all Allyson and stuff, but I never felt all "one of us! one of us!".

Um. Me either. I won't say that I felt unwelcome when I started posting here but I certainly don't recall that welcoming of a reception. But, then again, my tenure here started under much the same "people who are not us are talking about and linking to us" cloud as the community is experiencing now.

Also, regarding backchannel discussion, I'm all for it and not just here. On every board/community I frequent. There are times when I will speak up and say, "Okay. You said XYZ and it bothered me because ABC." But most of the time, it's a lot easier to just let it roll off my back and vent to one of my friends on IM.

I've already done the fighting in the trenches thing. I was a Bronzer and fought long and hard because I loved that community and felt it had given me so much. And, at the end of the day, I got ripped to shreds and almost gave myself a nervous breakdown and it wasn't worth it.

So yes. I'm all in favor of the backchannel.

Victor said:

There've been a lot of changes here lately. I'm okay with all of them. I'm still okay with everybody. But I really think people need to relax a little, remember that, on occasion, people are going to be jerks and to not let themselves get caught up in it. Because a few people really DO stir up a pot, but only you can let them get to you.

Worth repeating.

Although to get back to what MM said earlier about there being a double-standard, I hope that anyone who sees that sort of thing being implemented (by which I mean a newbie being stomped for behavior that is accepted from a veteran) would speak out.

In other words, the civility level of this community is derived entirely from the committment of each individual member to maintain it. We can't leave it to ita or John or Jon to do our policing, that's neither fair to them nor appropriate, given the consensus-building we've done here.

Funny how subjective experience is. I did not feel immediately welcomed with warm, fuzzy hugs when I first posted. I didn’t feel alienated either, but I certainly felt new and, more than occasionally, I felt like I was interupting things. Or I would post and then realize that I had no idea how I was coming accross, and then I would wonder if I sounded like a pompous windbag. It took me a while to feel a part of the community. And even now, I am very aware of different levels of intimacy between me and other Buffistas. That’s just how it is.

And as with any community, I *do* think that some people can get away with more than others. Or maybe it’s just that some people just get away with more than I like, and unlike ita I don’t necessarily feel comfortable calling them on it. But I wouldn’t call it hypocrisy, only because I’ve never seen a completely transparent community of complete equals. It would be hypocrisy if we explicitly stated everyone was free to come here and wave his dick around, but we don’t.

I could reiterate my position again, but I think I've either made it and it's being ignored, or it won't be gotten.

Why do you think your position is being ignored?

One last thought: Perhaps the photos at WX allowed us to more quickly and easily put a face to the poster & made integration easier.

billy deserves a hug. I apparently have vouchers for several.

Hee. Well, I was typing that up listening to Carole King. I've now put on Oasis, and will no doubt be back shortly to rip yez all a new one.

I hope that anyone who sees that sort of thing being implemented (by which I mean a newbie being stomped for behavior that is accepted from a veteran) would speak out.

I still believe that the double-standard is acceptable. i.e, if i call ita a low down dirty ho in conversation, vs someone who has never before posted calling ita a low down dirty ho.

Because, as ita is my example girl here, ita KNOWS i lurve her, and don;t actually believe that, and it's ribbing between friends.

Kristen and I are family. The Kristen and Allyson Show is another example. Kristen can say, "back away from the computer and paint your toenails or something." And I know her well enough to back away from the computer and paint my toenails or something, because she knows me better than anyone else on the board, and can see where my limits are.

If Hec says the same thing, and i'd go postal.

That's a double-standard, and it makes complete sense, to me.

But I wouldn't come into Bureaucracy and scream about it, and I would be upset and embarrassed if a dozen or so other people chimed in with "Yeah, let's GET HIM!"

(I'm not only responding to this quote; this is just the one that jumped out at me on the topic.) I just did a search, and the first time Schmoker's name was mentioned in Bureaucracy was after he posted here about why are standards are different for people on the show than for people on the board. So he kind of started the discussion on himself.

I tried to type up something responding to the discussion in general, but then realized that i'm not entirely sure what's actually being discussed. Pretty much: I've seen boards go up in flames before. It's not pretty. But the one I remember most pretty much self-destructed when two long-time posters got into an argument and dragged everyone else into it with them. It's not always newbies who "don't get it" who bring boards down.

Also: I think the fears of being overrun have been a bit overdramatic. We haven't been swamped. We've had a bunch of new posters. There are some that I like more than others, but there are some old people that I like more than others. I don't think we've been picking on new people for being as snarky as old people (and if we have, I'm sorry.) I think that most of the issues stem from the fact that the board really serves two purposes: it's for talking about the shows, and it's a community. Snarkiness, analysis, and whatever about the shows is welcome from everybody, and always has been. Most of the issues that I see coming in are from when people are trying to figure out their place in the community, and that takes time, simply because that's how people work.

Uh, I hope no one minds a relative (as in, my number's lower than others who are part of the mass influx of Fall/Winter 2002, but I haven't posted much) newbie dropping in to the discussion.

To be honest? I think you're blowing this issue way out of proportion. No offense, but all this talk about newbies and the problems they'll bring sounds like kids fearing the boogyman and what he'll do to them at night. Your fear is coming off as way out of proportion to the actual problems that have cropped up, in my opinion.

I haven't Nattered, but I've posted in Dude, Firefly, Bitches and the Angel thread. Has everyone come rushing to welcome me with open arms? No. But I don't expect that. I expect that, despite my close friendships with two longstanding board members (see tagline) it will take time to ingratiate myself with the established community, and I haven't had the time to devote to doing that yet. But it'll happen eventually. I know this... or at least, I'm hoping!

I can only speak for myself, but I don't think you guys are turning your noses up at newbies. You just need to get to know them first. That's not a reflection on you as a community, it's a reflection on you being a community made up of human beings.

I still believe that the double-standard is acceptable. i.e, if i call ita a low down dirty ho in conversation, vs someone who has never before posted calling ita a low down dirty ho.

I agree. Uh...not about ita being a ho, because she can kick me in the head. But about a "double standard." And it isn't a double standard, IMO -- there are levels of relationships here. And that's the way things are with different relationships.