I don't know if I can explain it well enough for you, MM (or anyone). I still liken it to meatspace. I just don't think that -- in general -- someone can enter a group of strangers and immediately be at ease with everyone and familiar with all the already-established relationships and levels of familiarity.

Once in a while, it does happen. Someone enters a group of strangers and is instantly at ease. And that's great when that happens.

Is it personality? Probably part of it. I also think a large part of it is learning the community.

Perhaps that's elitist. But then, there's a reason why I'm here and not at another Buffy board. I *fit*here. The Buffistas fit *me*. And that is, in a way, exclusive.

I don't know what to tell you. Maybe I should cop to being an elitist pig and be done with it. It's still how I feel.

OK, can we step back a minute here?

What is it that this discussion is trying to determine, anyway?

We're not deciding whether any particular poster is in violation of community standards. We've had the Community Standards discussion ad nauseum multiple times over the past six months. Some people feel the standards are fairly applied. Others think they are not. Everyone's mileage is going to vary on something like this.

I think everyone agrees that the community as a whole would prefer most discussions be conducted with honesty and respect for the other parties, and that personal insults be kept off the board (as much as possible).

Communities are made up of human beings -- frail, fallible critters that we are. Every one of us has a breaking point, everyone sees things through their own filters, and everyone has different expectations.

A perfectly-worded Community Standards statement is neither achievable nor likely to resolve these issues and conflicts.

The best we can do is give our fellow posters the benefit of the doubt, bite our tongues when we react in anger, and try to be as civil and courteous as possible, understanding the limits of the medium we're working in.

IJS. YBMV.

MM, frankly, I don't remember how you came into the Buffistas, and I really don't care. We didn't have to care then. We *couldn't* afford to care, since we were not in a position to do a damned thing about it.

And, really, every time you walk into a group of people you don't know and act like you do and everything works out just fine? You were fricking lucky.

And you know what? I must have missed the part where anyone said anything official should be done schmokerwise if he isn't mieskie.

Also, as someone who most recently (and unofficially) mentioned to Rob and RL that I thought their posting was out of line ... I resemble the remark that anyone can get away with anything if they've just been here long enough. If people use a tone you feel they should be called on the carpet for, why didn't you?

And it's important to understand I didn't make my mentions to Rob or RL because I dislike either of them, or that I thought they should change their mind on the topic at hand, or that they hadn't been here as long as I have and are all nouveaux Buffistas.

It's because I thought they were being overly rude. I called it when I saw it cross *my* comfort line.

Now, if either of them were really new, I can see how it might want to make them pick up their bags and leave. Would you have called me unfair and cliquish then?

You know where the line is, MM. If you haven't made admins or the community aware of when you thought it was being crossed sufficiently, then what's the problem? You can't decide when other people's lines have been crossed. Only yours.

I'm glad you've gotten past your part in the apparent hypocrisy, but please be careful where you aim that gun.

Sure, I get driven bugfuck by stuff here. Still human. The bits where it's just life, or just my issues? I don't post a damned thing about. Because it's about more than just the boring way I want everything.

One man's community is another man's clique. C'est la vie, I suppose.

What is it that this discussion is trying to determine, anyway?

Nothing, as far as I can, other than How Do People Feel Today. Which is fine, and actually, I'd say it's a hallmark of the Buffistas -- overanalyzing every damn thing. Like I said, that's fine.

I've been holding off on posting myself, even though Cindy and I may have started it. However, I think what is happening now is everyone is taking the opportunity of talking about "newbies" to say things about the board as a whole-- newbies and oldbies.

Anyway, I am with Dana. I am finding this conflict upsetting. I personally am finding our conflict with each other more upsetting than any conflict we had with meiskie or schmoker. I am not saying that these things shouldn't be said, because obviously people are feeling them. I'm just saying that it is making me tense and upset and want to cry.

ita, I wasn't aiming a "gun" at any one person in particular.

And if I implied that this was an "official" condemnation of a new person for being new, that wasn't what I meant either.

What I'm commenting on is the tendency of the community to take issue with a new person's actions that they let slide for somebody who's been here a while. It's as though, suddenly, people went "Hey, we can do something about people we don't like" but they constrain themselves to acting en masse and viciously only against those who have come in recently. And they often do so in a manner that equals or exceeds the original rudeness they are purportedly responding to.

I'm not saying it's your "job" to police against that, I'm not saying it's anyone's job. But this "Lord of The Flies" mentality is a disturbing trend I've noticed in this group recently.

And, for the record, I commend you, ita, in particular for reminding Rob and RL to tone down their posts.

It's the nature of any group of people that agreement will not be universal. I do hope there are no group hugs in the offing once we've thrashed everything out, but I do think that once people say things they've been biting their tongues on, one way or another, that things will be stronger. And now I'm desperately afraid I'm sounding like an Oprah episode. Bleh.

And it's OK to be upset, Sophia. Seeing family members getting loud at each other always makes me a bit nauseous too.

It's as though, suddenly, people went "Hey, we can do something about people we don't like" but they constrain themselves to acting en masse and viciously only against those who have come in recently. And they often do so in a manner that equals or exceeds the original rudeness they are purportedly responding to.

I have not seen this. Certainly not "en masse." I have seen a few rude posts, made by a few people, and that's it. Now granted, I do skip and skim through the show threads.

And just to be really dorky about everything: I'm glad that people are disagreeing here, and that the occasional newer person has posted in this thread. I think we can work it out without people feeling they have to shut up and go away, if they don't agree with whatever they are percieving as the current groupthink.

the tendency of the community to take issue with a new person's actions that they let slide for somebody who's been here a while.

Show me a community that doesn't do that. Think about the difference between the way you treat Joe's new girlfriend at the party and the way you treat his wife of many years. Think about the amount of slack you give an old friend, as opposed to the amount of slack you give a stranger.

We just had a very bad experience. This has made us nervous and tetchy and looking over our shoulders for trouble. I think the best thing we can do is stop picking at the scab forawhile.

Show me a community that doesn't do that.

Up until very recently, I would have said "The Buffistas".