Bugger, I'm going to have to do it again. I hate looking all noble and tolerant, it makes people I don't like think they can talk to me.

I'm on Schmoker's side. The situation as I see it: He came in and attempted to to match the snark-level of the old timers, and as I saw it, some folks were quite surprised to find a relative newby immediately attempting to sound like a veteran. I personally dislike the idea of "You're new here, be quiet until you earn your stripes." No, no one used that phrase or even something close to it, but anytime I see "It takes time to fit into a community" or "you might need to watch a bit to figure out how to fit in" or words to that effect, I twitch.

No one should come here, hat in hand, and have to hang around on the doorstep waiting for some mythical time when they "fit in", "understand the community," or some other phrase that makes the people here into an "us/them", "oldtimers/newbies." More power to the people who arrive with confidence, stride into conversations, and have the courage to have their own personalities.

I laughed at his "panties in a twist" remark and was prepared to watch a bit of classic interpersonal snark. Instead all sorts of stuff blew up.

Ignore people at whim. But whenever an us/them divide appears, don't look for me on the "us" side.

I can't help but wonder if MARCIE would just help create a subculture of asswipes who would multiply like rabbits without the stompy foot of social norms.

Yes. This is what I'm waffling over. I think I'd only be able to MARCIE hypothetical people I felt sure I held only totally irrational hypothetical hatred towards, because the seriously problematic people, you know, they could get worse and worse and I'd never be able to be around to say you know it's my considered opinion that this person ought to be stomped. Because I think it's better if we're a self-cleaning community, and are awake to all flush out people that are seriously bad.

Also, I'll just admit it, I'd see [ignored post here] and get curious and click right through to see it.

connie, for me it's not so much the contents of his posts (though 'panties in a twist' struck me as very dismissive and offensive'), it's how he reacts when people are offended by the posts.

I can't help but wonder if MARCIE would just help create a subculture of asswipes who would multiply like rabbits without the stompy foot of social norms.

Why? Didn't really happen on TT. Especially if people can resist saying, "I'm putting your on MARCIE."

The situation as I see it: He came in and attempted to to match the snark-level of the old timers, and as I saw it, some folks were quite surprised to find a relative newby immediately attempting to sound like a veteran.

Wow. If this really how you feel, it's distressing. I hope we're better than that.

AS someone who wants to defend his point of view? I found his reaction fairly understandable. Ill chosen words, on occasion, but it takes some time to knock off rough edges. And rough edges come off when tumbling against other stones. Not a peaceful process. t /end possibly over clever metaphor

With Elena. There wasn't something wrong with the comments, it was as John pointed out, the passive aggressive comebacks. Always having the last word.

Also calling me a liar. That was annoying.

I also disagree with a characterization that we're not nice to newbies. I will admit there's a condescending "we know offensiveness when we see it" but I also think that's true, and old-timers are a helluva lot more likely to know it when they see it, and if you can't take a poster telling you he's offended, you don't belong here.

connie, for me it's not so much the contents of his posts (though 'panties in a twist' struck me as very dismissive and offensive'), it's how he reacts when

Wow. If this really how you feel, it's distressing. I hope we're better than that.

I have been really hesitant to speak up on this, since I still feel like a newbie, because I was one of the earlier people who said directly to Schmoker that he offended me, and because I don't think I handled it as well as I could have. I have to say though I argree with Elena, and with Dana. One of the reasons I like it here is how civil it usually is, and I got the feeling that Schmoker wasn't here to listen to others and be a part of a community, but to tell everybody his ideas about the ME shows. To my mind, there is a big difference between the oldtimers snark and what he was doing.

You have the right to be offended. He had the right to feel jumped on. Everybody's got rights. How things work out is up to the community and the individuals. I'm not saying anyone was flat out wrong. But I couldn't sit here any longer without putting my opinion on record, not when it was knotting my stomach the way it was. I'm fine with people disagreeing with me, I'm used to it. ;) But it's said, that that's sufficient for my purposes.

But I couldn't sit here any longer without putting my opinion on record, not when it was knotting my stomach the way it was.

Argh. I don't want your stomach to be in knots. I'm still distressed.

"panties in a bunch" is a useful phrase -- I ran across it reading the TTT thread after this started. I searched for it and found DXMachina "Firefly 1: Josssssss Innnnn Spaaaaaaaaaaace! [closed]" Oct 4, 2002 8:19:49 pm EDT saying "Whoa, somebody's got her panties in a bunch," but it turned out he was watch-and-posting to Firefly. Speaking of word-frequency counts, we have mieskie "Firefly 2: You Can't Take the Sky From Me." Dec 23, 2002 10:12:20 pm EST:

I didn't insult anyone here, because no one here doesn't like the show. But if you want to get your panties in a bunch because I blast someone you don't even know, so be it.