Could we add a link to the bureaucracy thread to the short etiquette?

I'm against a thread for music and a thread for movies. As it is, I'm little Ms. Skippy McSkimmerpants. Those of you who find Natter tremendously difficult to deal with are totally heard by me. I totally agree. Though I don't have as much issue with skipping and skimming, I do find the thread incredibly fast posting.

But the thing is, there is natter all over. I haven't really read in FF since The Influx and because without a new episode, it just felt like Natter +. Ditto with other threads.

If you build a music thread or a movie thread, then natter will happen there too. I guess I'm not particularly convinced that it will be any easier for me to keep up with those topical threads than it is for me to keep up with Natter.

You know, everything that mieskie/Michael just posted would be all fine and good, if it was in fact a truthful account of what actually happened. He's now making it seem as though he made all of these bland comments that everyone jumped all over, and that wasn't the case. He didn't just mention MT's breasts in a comparison to SMG. He posted comments about having fantasies about a 17 year old girl, and when told that many found his comments offensive,refused to back down. Instead of apologizing to those he offended, he used the tack of putting everyone on the defensive by saying that other posts were as offensive as his. Well, if that was the case, then why wasn't anyone offended by the comments he was referring to. Let's face it, this isn't a shy bunch of folks. All of these other "offensive" posts he refers to, wouldn't of just slipped through the cracks if they were truly offensive.

There's so much more that I could say, but to take each point that he's discussed and refute it by putting it back into context, seems rather futile at this point. The bottom line to me seems to be not necessarily the content of his posts at this point, but his total lack of consideration for other members of this board. He keeps saying he didn't "intend" this and he didn't "intend" that, but there should have come a point where he realized and accepted the fact that what he was intending wasn't jiving with what he was achieving. People were offended. Whether he thinks they should or shouldn't have been, doesn't change the fact that they were. It also doesn't change the fact that he was made aware of this and basically seemed not to care. To throw in the free speech and Big Brother arguments, to me diverts the attention away from what the real problem was. No one said that he or anyone else didn't have the right to express their thoughts. Anyone here obviously has that right, but certain obligations and responsibilities do and should come with that right. People on a posting board and in real life, despite being protected to a certain extent by the free speech right, do not have carte blanche to say whatever to whomever without being willing to accept the consequences of doing so. While thoughts certainly shouldn't be squashed due to rules and regulations, it's certainly reasonable for people to have to use a certain filtering process in how they express them. One person does not have the right to make the bulk of a community uncomfortable simply because he thinks he has the right to be crass and rude.

To say that his comments were in jest, that he knew he was pissing people off and would continue to do so in the future, and thus was trying to make light of it, to me exemplifies what the problem really was. A person with good intentions who truly wanted to become a part of an existing community, should look to curtailing their behavior in the hopes of not repeating it, not just accept it as a fact and laugh about it.

But things like music or movies which are more like interests?

Would then drop off my radar.

ita is so me here. I would feel sorely indeed if we started up Music and Movies threads. Because first, I would read in post in them about as often as I read and post in Literary, which is piss near never, and secondly and FAR MORE importantly, then Natter would truly be content-free. What's the point? To natter about everything, except the shows we watch on tv, the books we read, the movies we see, and the music we listen to?

Now, as to meiskie/Michael. 1) you haven't been *banned,* you've been *suspended,* given time to "chill off". But instead you keep coming back, an action that shows either disregard or disinterest in learning the basic rules of etiquette that guide the interactions on this board. If you truly want to be part of the community, follow the rules of etiquette.

once I did accuse someone of being hypocritical (which the person copped to being but said I should have phrased it more politely, i.e., use 100 words instead of ten to say the same thing, something I will never be very good at doing)

Jeez, I know I shouldn't rise to this. If this refers to me, I still see nothing hypocritical in distinguishing between the language and tone of a post which belittled and demeaned a 17 year old actress, describing her body in terms usually reserved for cattle, and anything I have posted here. I have no issues with swearing, and I'd have had no issues with a post saying "Dawn is a hottie". *

Still, as you cannot distinguish between the language and tone of your post and the general level of banter and innuendo here (which does not hinge upon belittling people) then clearly this wasn't the place for you. Good luck in your future endeavours online and elsewhere.

*My gut reaction, I'll grant you, was to think "My God, I must be at fault here." Because I do that. But upon reflection, I don't think I was hypocritical at all. And I don't think anyone else was either - if anyone else had made similar remarks I'd have been equally offended.

I don't usually post here, though I do keep up. Probably because after all this time I still don't consider myself a "real" Buffista, don't know if I ever will. And I feel totally comfortable acknowledging that there are some Buffistae who are more "real" than others, can't define 'em, but know 'em when I see 'em. I really just wanted to apologize because I was one of the people that posted about the whole m situation in Natter. I think I might have even brought it up there. I don't read the FF thread, but knew what was going on from reading here and I just wanted to show some support for how the situation was handled. I totally didn't mean to make anyone uncomfortable or talk behind people's backs. And I do love that this thread exists and that this communtiy cares so much about trying to do the right thing. You guys rock. So hard.

Going back to Music--how much music is discussed in depth in Natter?

Also is there no book talk at all in Natter?

I just want to reiterate, once:

Michael. Dude. However *at all* polite, or clever, or nice you may be now, we don't want to hear it. You were given the chance to come back in two months and try again. You flunked that chance by re-registering under mmmieskie. That violated the terms of yr Buffisthood contract; and it made us not love you. Goodbye.

Also is there no book talk at all in Natter?

It comes up not that often. Which can be surprising. Literary on WX was manageable for me. Literary here is much higher volume.

I used the word "breast". That's for cattle?

Later I mentioned "teats", which was in response to someone jumping down my throat for using the word "breasts".

And what I said was that it made me feel uncombfortable that Dawn was getting me hot and bothered. Not that I wanted to jump her bones and grind her down, but that it was making me feel really old to watch her grow up (and out) so quickly. You misread the post, and I didn't feel the need to take back what I said because someone misread it. I didn't fantasize about her, nor did I post anything vulgar about her. In fact, just the opposite. I said I was uncombfortable about it myself.

But I guess that's the deal. It matters not what I post, but how others react to it. That I can't control someone's reaction is apparently my fault in your mind. But the semantic content of "Dawn's a hottie" is no different than what I said. In fact, "Dawn's a hottie" is even a little more direct than I got, because there's not mention there of being a grown man feeling embarrassed because you feel Dawn is a hottie. You were just looking to jump down my throat, I imagine. Which if, of course, your perogative.

But all the fawning over James at 15? I cannot for the life me understand how that is ok to talk about your hots for him, while mentioning 17 year old Dawn is not ok.

Perhaps because for those females out there that got so mad at me, there's a double standard at work. Ok to talk about young guys, but not OK talk about young women?

Nah, of course you would not cop to that sort of hypocritical content. But I point it out all the same, because that's what it is. You can salivate over him all you want, but don't let the shoe get on the other foot, eh?