Hauser: You really think you can solve the problem? Come into Wolfram & Hart and make everything right? Turn night into glorious day? You pathetic little fairy. Angel: I'm not little.

'Just Rewards (2)'


All Ogle, No Cash -- It's Not Just Annoying, It's Un-American

Discussion of episodes currently airing in Un-American locations (anything that's aired in Australia is fair game), as well as anything else the Un-Americans feel like talking about or we feel like asking them. Please use the show discussion threads for any current-season discussion.

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§ ita § - Jan 05, 2012 10:09:28 am PST #9360 of 9843
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I think what makes it sex work for me is if you would not be having sex with that person if you were not getting financial gain for it.

I agree with that, mostly. I don't think that whether you're married or not has any inherent link to it, though. Your intentions are what's important, not how many other people are being slept with, or if there's certification.

Because Occam suggests that beautiful young women rarely flock to really old, really wealthy men for the sake of love alone. I'm sure they could have fond feelings for them, but doubt that Cupid's arrow is the only thing involved.

While I'm sure that there are hot young women sleeping with rich old men they wouldn't otherwise sleep with, I don't think I know which ones are which, and wouldn't even know which ones are *likely* to be which. I encounter a lot of "I wouldn't sleep with someone their age, so why would anyone?" and I get flustered by that. It makes no sense. Obviously some people fall in love with "unlikely" people, and there are no impossible pairings.


P.M. Marc - Jan 05, 2012 10:27:42 am PST #9361 of 9843
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

There are old people I'd totally hit like a Mac truck, but fair point, and I'll amend it to "high probablility of it being sex work."


Typo Boy - Jan 05, 2012 11:40:49 am PST #9362 of 9843
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

Plei. I'm sorry I pinged a personal issue by phrasing it such a way as to sound like I thought everyone who disagreed on interpretation had not read the text. Not what I intended to imply but it certainly came out that way, so still completely my fault.


P.M. Marc - Jan 05, 2012 11:58:19 am PST #9363 of 9843
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

Eh, happens.

For whatever it's worth, two of the most commonly suggested inspirations for the character are Lillie Langtry [link] and Lola Montez [link] either of whom would have been in the "who a reader in Doyle's day would have thought of when thinking of royal mistresses and potential scandals and stuff like that" category.


Atropa - Jan 05, 2012 12:31:33 pm PST #9364 of 9843
The artist formerly associated with cupcakes.

Lola Montez! Lola Montez!


P.M. Marc - Jan 05, 2012 1:31:14 pm PST #9365 of 9843
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

HIGH ON MY LIST OF HISTORICAL HOTTIES, YES.

Wait. Right. That's totally not her appeal for you. I keep forgetting. ;p


Atropa - Jan 05, 2012 1:37:37 pm PST #9366 of 9843
The artist formerly associated with cupcakes.

Wait. Right. That's totally not her appeal for you. I keep forgetting. ;p

Nope, sorry. I just think she's awesome.


P.M. Marc - Jan 05, 2012 1:38:05 pm PST #9367 of 9843
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

(God, that's 90% of our text messages in a nutshell, Jilli.)


Atropa - Jan 05, 2012 1:42:33 pm PST #9368 of 9843
The artist formerly associated with cupcakes.

Ha! You are not wrong.

Huh. So any mention of Lola Montez makes me want to reread the Flashman book she appears in.


P.M. Marc - Jan 05, 2012 1:54:38 pm PST #9369 of 9843
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

I do think that, much like ACD Holmes and Watson were originally written as young men and the BBC series has tried to recapture the that feel for the audience and push away the cobwebs, the reinterpretation of Adler for modern audiences seems to try to recapture some of what the original readers would have read into the character in the portrayal.

It's always tricky. Times and customs change, and, of course, modern era fans of the original are reading with a completely different context. It obviously worked for some of us, not for others.

(Secondary and critical note, if I could somehow manage to remove the unreconstructed Orientalism from Moff and Gatiss's imaginations, I so totally would. It's like a drinking game with me at this point. Although if I really were drinking, I don't think I could've ever got through the Lucifer Box books and remained upright.)