Gabriel: Are you trying to destroy this family? Simon: I didn't realize it would be so easy.

'Safe'


All Ogle, No Cash -- It's Not Just Annoying, It's Un-American

Discussion of episodes currently airing in Un-American locations (anything that's aired in Australia is fair game), as well as anything else the Un-Americans feel like talking about or we feel like asking them. Please use the show discussion threads for any current-season discussion.

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Tom Scola - Jan 04, 2012 5:20:54 am PST #9313 of 9843
Mr. Scola’s wardrobe by Botany 500

More complaints about Moffat writing female characters: [link]


Strega - Jan 04, 2012 5:32:18 am PST #9314 of 9843

Adler is not "a mistress to foreign nationals" as if that's her profession. She's a retired opera singer who had an affair. And she's a foreign national herself, for that matter.

I enjoyed this review. [link]


§ ita § - Jan 04, 2012 5:35:34 am PST #9315 of 9843
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I don't like the equation of the fact she slept with whoever with a sexual profession. Even though she was using that material as leverage, it's just not the same thing.


P.M. Marc - Jan 04, 2012 11:27:02 am PST #9316 of 9843
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

In Doyle, Irene Adler had an extremely strong if somewhat unconventional ethical code - though not unconventional in everything. Her word was good, and she was kind and compassionate.

Adler's specifically called out as an adventuress in ASiB. In the sense of "woman using unscrupulous means to gain wealth or social position." Watson's lens of "poor sweet thing!" aside, I don't see her as having enough characterization to draw the conclusion that she's kind and compassionate.

Also, I found Mycroft and company's cunning plan (to... terrify their citizenry without actual deaths and strengthen their position in terms of the politics of war, is the best I can come up with) about as amoral as anything else in there.


amych - Jan 04, 2012 11:54:22 am PST #9317 of 9843
Now let us crush something soft and watch it fountain blood. That is a girlish thing to want to do, yes?

Far more so, I thought.


Calli - Jan 04, 2012 12:39:20 pm PST #9318 of 9843
I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul—Calvin and Hobbs

Really, there's a lot of "not good" going on in the series if you look for it. There's Mycroft's shennanigans, Irene attempts to steal information that could be used by terrorists (plus blackmail, etc.), Sherlock lets a victim suffer longer in a vest of explosives in "The Great Game" because he wants to get a leg up on Moriarty, John brags about killing people (and we've seen him do so once), Lestrade organizes a (possibly) baseless drugs bust in Sherlock's apartment to try to make Sherlock do what Lestrade wants (and his underlings help), Sarah covers up for a doctor that falls asleep on the job—the only recurring character who doesn't bend their position or abilities in questionable directions is Mrs. Hudson.

I love the show, and I can't wait for the next episode to hit iPlayer, but I'm not sure I'd look to most of the characters for moral guidance.


DebetEsse - Jan 04, 2012 12:41:48 pm PST #9319 of 9843
Woe to the fucking wicked.

Oh, definitely, Plei. I like that Sherlock used the pronoun "us" in the conversation with the cigarette. Lord, I'd love to meet Mummy.

I feel like I should go back and read Bohemia after I finish Baskervilles (It's where I was in the publishing order. I didn't jump ahead or anything)

Having watched it twice, I'm both hoping and worried that we'll see Irene again.

Has anybody else poked around the online stuff?


Typo Boy - Jan 04, 2012 12:44:18 pm PST #9320 of 9843
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

I don't see her as having enough characterization to draw the conclusion that she's kind and compassionate.

Her actions towards Sherlock when he was pretending to be a clergyman before she identified him.


§ ita § - Jan 04, 2012 12:57:07 pm PST #9321 of 9843
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

What's wrong with bragging about killing people? That seems entirely harmless, unless they were murders.


DebetEsse - Jan 04, 2012 1:00:57 pm PST #9322 of 9843
Woe to the fucking wicked.

I do think that talking to Sherlock about killing people is not the same as talking about it with other people, which we haven't seen John do, that I recall.