What is your childhood trauma?

Cordelia ,'Lessons'


All Ogle, No Cash -- It's Not Just Annoying, It's Un-American

Discussion of episodes currently airing in Un-American locations (anything that's aired in Australia is fair game), as well as anything else the Un-Americans feel like talking about or we feel like asking them. Please use the show discussion threads for any current-season discussion.

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Typo Boy - Jan 04, 2012 12:44:18 pm PST #9320 of 9843
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

I don't see her as having enough characterization to draw the conclusion that she's kind and compassionate.

Her actions towards Sherlock when he was pretending to be a clergyman before she identified him.


§ ita § - Jan 04, 2012 12:57:07 pm PST #9321 of 9843
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

What's wrong with bragging about killing people? That seems entirely harmless, unless they were murders.


DebetEsse - Jan 04, 2012 1:00:57 pm PST #9322 of 9843
Woe to the fucking wicked.

I do think that talking to Sherlock about killing people is not the same as talking about it with other people, which we haven't seen John do, that I recall.


§ ita § - Jan 04, 2012 1:02:27 pm PST #9323 of 9843
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

It doesn't seem like a moral issue to me at all. That's why I'm confused. He was a soldier, and he's comfortable with and sometimes reliant on his reputation as having done so. That seems ethically legit to me--it's not like mentally torturing someone in a bomb vest or orchestrating fake police action.


DebetEsse - Jan 04, 2012 1:09:58 pm PST #9324 of 9843
Woe to the fucking wicked.

Maybe not a moral issue, but it does have an air of cold-blooded-ness, I think. Someone else is going to have to work on verbalizing why, as I'm not coming up with much.


Calli - Jan 04, 2012 1:10:04 pm PST #9325 of 9843
I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul—Calvin and Hobbs

The bragging isn't the problem (although I wouldn't call it a great thing to do). But we don't know that he did kill other people, aside from the cabbie, we just know that he says he did, so I modified "John killed people" with "bragged about" to acknowledge that. Taking him at his word, he's killed people. We could, and probably should, assume he did so in defense of his military unit, but he didn't say that. He just bragged that he killed people, and in the process suggested that Sherlock—not quite a lethal enemy, although an assailant—should knock it off. It did imply he'd be willing to use deadly force to deal with a non-lethal situation. We weren't suppose to take him seriously. We probably weren't supposed to take the drug bust seriously or Sarah's covering for John's work issues seriously, either (although I sure wouldn't have wanted to be the last patient just before he conked out at his desk—heaven knows what he might have missed). But taken at face value, using implied threats based on previous killing to attempt to influence a current non-lethal situation is a bit not good.


Dana - Jan 04, 2012 1:13:05 pm PST #9326 of 9843
I'm terrifically busy with my ennui.

If John wasn't fucked up too, the show wouldn't be half as much fun.


Calli - Jan 04, 2012 1:14:03 pm PST #9327 of 9843
I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul—Calvin and Hobbs

If John wasn't fucked up too, the show wouldn't be half as much fun.

Oh, yes. It's all glorious, interlocking dysfunction.


§ ita § - Jan 04, 2012 1:25:02 pm PST #9328 of 9843
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

It did imply he'd be willing to use deadly force to deal with a non-lethal situation

Huh. I would totally tell people I (c/w)ould kill them in order to shorten a physical altercation. It seems so ethically a non-issue to me, because it's so damned expedient. It's not sadistic, and as it was delivered it wasn't even egotistical. It was just impatient. It's about as morally fraught as pointing a gun at someone who's trying to hurt you with their fists.


Calli - Jan 04, 2012 1:33:26 pm PST #9329 of 9843
I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul—Calvin and Hobbs

I thought you weren't supposed to point a gun at someone unless you were willing to kill them with it.

If I had a gun to hand and someone was trying to beat me up, I probably would point it at them to get them to stop (of course, in my real world situation, I don't know that I'd trust them to stop at beating), knowing I might kill them with it. But (hope) I wouldn't pull it out knowing someone's being an asshole with no intent to go beyond bruises. I don't think killing people is an appropriate response to anything but them attempting to kill other people.

I don't think saying, "I kill people, so stop hitting me to pick fights" is the same as pulling a gun. It's not as dangerous.