I wanted to hear a bunch of different viewpoints from people who were friendly and intelligent on why they honestly thought keeping Saddam in power was for the greater good, and now I understand it a lot more. You're not as monolithic and you're not all freedom-hating status quo cappucino-sipping beret-wearing innocents as the press would portray you , and it's great to get all these viewpoints. I would do this by kidding around, and while some of my jokes fell as flat as matzoh I think I helped get some good discussions going, after everyone got miffed Margaret-Dumont style at the way I started them. Those lorgnette raps hurt!

Caroma, all I can say (between giggles) is that this joke didn't fall flat at all. I've never COMMed anything and as a recent de-lurker am a bit fearful of doing so, but I hope that the above excerpt makes it into the annals.

And Julie you've gotten into the issue that I've been doing some thinking and writing about over the last 24-48 hours, the issue of community. I'll post some of it a little later.

From what to what, Fiona?

Let's see... last six eps of Firefly (although I have yet to watch the first few); Buffy eps 7.9 through 7.16 and Angel 4.7 through 4.12. So lots of good stuff, and caught up with you Aussies, more or less.

So, can we have an update - where are the Aussies up to? I'm one ahead of Fiona (Yeah, I kazaa'ed).

You folks don't get to vote for him, so it's not your responsibility or problem.

Caroma, I'd disagree that the nature and actions of the man who represents what is arguably the most powerful country on the Earth, isn't my problem. I'd also go as far as to point out that his role in the world is just as much a concern to me as, for example, Saddam Hussein's.

I'm not saying that I think he or his actions are evil (and I'm not saying that I'm not saying that, either :) but I do think that he can be considered to be my "problem". And, depending on how intensely I am affected by that problem, it's valid for me to feel I have a responsibility to speak out or act in the hopes of bringing about change. That change may not be about overthrowing the American President, but if I feel it is warranted, I can be active in trying to change the relationship between my country and his, or my government and his. And in raising my concerns in fora such as this.

So, if you seem to be saying that Dubya and the Republicans (a vast and diverse party, BTW--my mayor, Mike Bloomberg is one) are such a bunch evil right-wing freaks, you're implying that everyone who voted for him and/or doesn't think flowers die when he walks by is sort of a dupe. I think that's what I'm picking up on and that's what I get defensive about.

Perhaps what you are picking up on is a tendency for people to use hyperbole and symbolism when discussing unpopular leadership actions or party policy. That happens. I believe it's a side-affect of being human. And generally considered a good way to blow of steam. It's certainly preferable to, oh, say, marching on parliament with rocks :)

What I think I see here is a group of people that are rational and open-minded and questioning of what they are shown of world events by the media. People's irrational bits may talk about dead flowers, but their logical bits are a fine blend of national and international interests and concerns. (With tiny bits of petty "take that, you bad guy you", and a smidge of parochial defiance at being considered just another American state.) I think that there are statements that they make, and take, lightly. And then there are the one true statements. Those they mean, and will defend against all comers.

If I read ten people talk about their focus on "the greater good", I see ten different definitions of that good. I read fifty people, I see fifty definitions. People certainly don't think, for example, that their choices are limited to mindlessly following the GWB bandwagon now that it's arolling, or supporting keeping Saddam in power.

And the knowledge that the world isn't quite that black and white is generally what allows me to get out of bed in the morning.

And hey, before anyone accuses me of breeching my earlier "I don't talk war" stance, I'm not actually talking war. I'm talking about talking about the war. Whole other vibe :)

the issue of community. I'll post some of it a little later.

moonlit! great! I've had enough of doing study anyway. Which isn't the same as I've done enough studying, but if you don't tell, I won't.

Let's see... last six eps of Firefly (although I have yet to watch the first few);

sigh. Firefly. I haven't seen what you think so far, but towards the end there I was ready to trade BtVS and Angel for more Firefly. I think, at the end of the day, it's Joss that I want more of. And there was a fire and an energy to what he said about, and did with, Firefly that I just don't see in the other shows anymore. I used to say that he had fallen in love again, and well, seeing that? Rubbed off on me.

Buffy eps 7.9 through 7.16 and Angel 4.7 through 4.12. So lots of good stuff, and caught up with you Aussies, more or less.

eeep. I don't remember what's what. They kinda blur for me, as I tend to watch in twos and threes, somewhat like you. Which is good when you get to the cliffhanger and don't have to wait a(t least a) week for resolution. Not so good later on when I'm trying to remember what happened when. Although I will say, generally, this season's Buffy's titles tend to be more linked to the episode. I can usually remember the theme of that forty minutes, and some context for the events.

where are the Aussies up to?

This bunny's a kazaaer too, so I'm less help.

Oh wait, last week's Angel was Long Day's Journey. That's 4/09. The equivalent Buffy is 7/09 - Never Leave Me.

I really started to love Firefly too. I guess because it combined 2 of my favourite genres - jaded McCabe and Mrs Miller - style late westerns and gritty post-cyberpunk space operas - and because it was so gutsy to make a character-based show like that.

Yes, and as of this week, I think Sydney/Brisbane and Melbourne/Adelaide are on the same page.

Caroma, I'd disagree that the nature and actions of the man who represents what is arguably the most powerful country on the Earth, isn't my problem.

Exactly. Imagine, for a second, that the policy of your country was defined and dominated by a superpower across the ocean. Or, indeed, remember what you lot did last time that happened...

They've just started advertising Firefly on the UK SciFi channel. I heard the music and it made me sad. But then again, we'll get the three missing episodes.

Sorry about spouting episode numbers at you, Julie, but they're what's on the tapes and I didn't have time to head off to an episode guide.

Re Firefly: our tapes were supposed to be heading off to Australia at some point (John H., to be precise), so perhaps we can work something out. Judging by my recent reliability at posting stuff, though, I'd better not promise anything.

Caroma, I'd disagree that the nature and actions of the man who represents what is arguably the most powerful country on the Earth, isn't my problem.

Especially as that country seems increasingly keen to ignore many of the international institutions and treaties which are supposed to apply to all.

Judging by my recent reliability at posting stuff, though, I'd better not promise anything.

YOUR reliability?!!!!? GLad you're enjoying the tapes, though.