Well, and if it didn't operate on the individual, at some point, wouldn't the common ancestor theory fall apart? Isn't it the argument involved in explaining how there can be modern apes, and modern humans with the same ancestor?
On my seventh birthday, I wanted a toy fire truck, and I didn't get it, and you were real nice about it, and then the house next door burnt down, and then real firetrucks came, and for years I thought you set the fire for me. And if you did, you can tell me!
Xander ,'Same Time, Same Place'
Natter 46: The FIGHTIN' 46
Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.
Topic!Cindy - Aug 07, 2006 8:32:53 am PDT #1228 of 10001
What is even happening?
§ ita § - Aug 07, 2006 8:34:44 am PDT #1229 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
the idea is that every individual in a species gets some genes from his parents, and a few from Fate, and ends up different from his forbears
Okay, I guess it did fall into the obvious category, then. Thanks.
Typo Boy - Aug 07, 2006 8:47:38 am PDT #1230 of 10001
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.
Evolutionists now universally agree -- I think Dawkins and Wilson and Dennett would all agree -- that evolution does not operate on the species.
Yeah, but there is still such a thing as group selection yes? That is there is a gene that causes individual to do x more frequently that benefits the tribe/herd/flock/whatver that individual is part of, but is not neccesarily directly pro-survival for that individual, that gene can still spread and survive if it benefits the group so strongly enough. Basiscally the point here is that enough relatives contain more of your genes than you by yourself do. Haldane made a joke about this when he said "I would lay down my life for two brothers or eight cousins". Is group selection now considered discredited?
Allyson - Aug 07, 2006 8:53:20 am PDT #1231 of 10001
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica
Isn't it the argument involved in explaining how there can be modern apes, and modern humans with the same ancestor?
Does that argument actually exist, still?
Topic!Cindy - Aug 07, 2006 9:01:15 am PDT #1232 of 10001
What is even happening?
What one, Allyson, common descent?
Allyson - Aug 07, 2006 9:07:12 am PDT #1233 of 10001
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica
The one where:
"...We can't have evolved from apes because there are still apes!"
Topic!Cindy - Aug 07, 2006 9:13:41 am PDT #1234 of 10001
What is even happening?
I don't think anyone here was making that argument. Quite the contrary.
Typo Boy - Aug 07, 2006 9:16:37 am PDT #1235 of 10001
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.
Allyson don't think that argument is taken seriously as a scientific argument. (In point of fact apes are our cousins, not our grandparents.) But people who insist that creationism is a scientific theory seem unwilling to drop any argument, no matter how discredited.
Oh and on group selection:
So apparently group selection is considered a really viable hypothesis (even by some a theory) though it is still controversial.
Allyson - Aug 07, 2006 9:16:54 am PDT #1236 of 10001
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica
I didn't say anyone here was. I responded to:
Isn't it the argument involved in explaining how there can be modern apes, and modern humans with the same ancestor?
And was asking if people still made the argument, making the explanation a necessity in debate.
Polter-Cow - Aug 07, 2006 9:29:27 am PDT #1237 of 10001
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!
I think the comma after "apes" is making that statement come across wrong.