Evolutionists now universally agree -- I think Dawkins and Wilson and Dennett would all agree -- that evolution does not operate on the species.
Yeah, but there is still such a thing as group selection yes? That is there is a gene that causes individual to do x more frequently that benefits the tribe/herd/flock/whatver that individual is part of, but is not neccesarily directly pro-survival for that individual, that gene can still spread and survive if it benefits the group so strongly enough. Basiscally the point here is that enough relatives contain more of your genes than you by yourself do. Haldane made a joke about this when he said "I would lay down my life for two brothers or eight cousins". Is group selection now considered discredited?
Isn't it the argument involved in explaining how there can be modern apes, and modern humans with the same ancestor?
Does that argument actually exist, still?
What one, Allyson, common descent?
The one where:
"...We can't have evolved from apes because there are still apes!"
I don't think anyone here was making that argument. Quite the contrary.
Allyson don't think that argument is taken seriously as a scientific argument. (In point of fact apes are our cousins, not our grandparents.) But people who insist that creationism is a scientific theory seem unwilling to drop any argument, no matter how discredited.
Oh and on group selection:
[link]
So apparently group selection is considered a really viable hypothesis (even by some a theory) though it is still controversial.
I didn't say anyone here was. I responded to:
Isn't it the argument involved in explaining how there can be modern apes, and modern humans with the same ancestor?
And was asking if people still made the argument, making the explanation a necessity in debate.
I think the comma after "apes" is making that statement come across wrong.
And was asking if people still made the argument, making the explanation a necessity in debate.
Oddly enough, people do. I heard someone call into Penn Jillette's radio show the other day thinking he had completely pwned Jillette with it. But you shouldn't have to if the other side is familiar with the first thing about evolution.
