I liked Illyria. I get the suspension of disbelief thing though. I couldn't imagine her working as a regular in the earlier seasons, interacting with characters like Doyle and Kate (ignoring the fact that would be impossible, continuity-wise). Similarly, seeing Number Five delivering mail in the Wolfram and Hart offices while Holland is deciding whether to kill Lindsey in "Blind Date" would be just as jarring, tonally.

At the moment I'm now trying to get to grips with the fact that the same Buffy from small town California who partied at the Bronze is now jumping out of helicopters and vaporizing force fields with guns.

I never took to Fred. There were moments I felt differently, but on the whole, I never understood her presence in the story, in the first place. I felt terribly sad when she died -- but in a way that made me feel emotionally manipulated. Storytelling involves emotional manipulation, but it shouldn't make you feel cheap and easy, the morning after.

I thought Amy Acker knocked the Illyria role out of the park, but that the character of Illyria wasn't worth it. Suddenly, we didn't have to deal with the fallout of Wes/Fred/Gunn. We just had to look at someone who posed like a bug. A lot.

(ignoring the fact that would be impossible, continuity-wise).

Given what we saw in "Time Bomb," it actually might not be, though of course Glenn Quinn's real-life absence would have been insurmountable.

I really liked Illyria as a character, though I don't think they came up with an actual good reason for it to hang around after the end of "Shells." Acker was just great in the part.

edited because I don't think Illyria was a "her" despite appearances.

P.S. Jackal, you might want to white font your comments about the Buffy comic. In the comic thread, they white font comments about the current issue until a week after the release of the subsequent issue. There has been a lot of talk about it in our Comics thread. The discussion starts here: sumi "Other Media 2: It's Astounishing!" Mar 14, 2007 11:47:48 am PDT. I also have a big post about it, in my LJ, where you don't have to use white font. [link] (complete spoilers for issue one of BtVS Season 8 at that last link).

Characters hanging around for no reason has happened before -- Spike being a good example in season 4 of Buffy (and season 7) (and season 5 in Angel).

See, the thing I found with Fred was -- Amy Acker is So Very Cute. And Fred was So Very Dull most of the time (exception: 'Billy'). But I didn't mind so much, because of the pretty. I thought Illyria worked great, because it gave Amy a character to actually play, and personally I thought the interactions between Wes and Illyria worked great as it taught me a bit about Wes I didn't realise. I thought the delivery of Illyria by Joss was done... emotionally. But at the same time, kinda eye rollingly in some ways (who'd of thunk that Wes and Fred finally get together and then one of them dies).

I think the Illyria thing ultimately needed time to pay back, as we never got to see where they were going with the character.

And please lord. Angel, the champion, Cordy, vomit.

In the comic thread, they white font comments about the current issue until a week after the release of the subsequent issue.

Not so. From the Other Media thread description:

Please use spoiler font for new releases until after the weekend following release.

So Jackal's post is OK.

t on edit Oh wait... after the weekend. That means it's not OK until tomorrow. I'll fix it.

I thought that you whitefonted in the thread until the weekend after release but that you had to whitefont everywhere else like you do for tv shows. Not so?

That's my understanding also, as otherwise people who haven't yet got the comics will be spoiled.

Also, a month until Drive!

Sorry about the lack of white-font. Didn't know about comic spoiler rules.

I still think that Illyria happened because 1) Fred was never a clearly drawn character; 2) but they liked Acker, understandably; 3) plus she was the only woman in the cast; so 4) they needed to turn her into a different character.

Unfortunately, they turned her into a character who was more clearly defined, but had no motivating purpose. Sorta like Lorne.