How do you distinguish a victim of martyr complex from a "I regret that I have but one life to give" hero? If it's a cause we agree with, they're heroes. Otherwise it's a pathology. I guess that might be why the term makes me twitchy; most human behavior is intended to elicit a response, and usually that intention is hidden.

Semi-randomly: I liked the book "Games People Play" because it didn't really bother about judging behavior; it just described it. Or at least that's what I remember of it. Plus I'm a behaviorist running dog. So I think because of that, I reserve "passive-aggressive" for dynamics where the response (or lack of response) is part of the game. This may be a distinction that only makes sense in my head.

Huh. I'll have to pick Strega's brain sometime - I find this sort of thing fascinating. I'm a big believer in the idea that people very often don't know the real reason they do things, but just rationalize their behavior after the fact.

I think I'll also pick up a copy of "Games People Play."

In a less serious look at suicide, the Queen song "Dont' Try Suicide" has always cracked me up:

Don't try suicide
Nobody's worth it
Don't try suicide
Nobody cares
Don't try suicide
Just gonna hate it
Don't try suicide
Nobody gives a damn

I mean, to tell someone "nobody cares" and "nobody gives a damn" is an odd way to talk someone out of a suicide. And what does "noboby's worth it" mean here? Finally, "Don't try suicide / Just gonna hate it" is damn funny.

How do you distinguish a victim of martyr complex from a "I regret that I have but one life to give" hero? If it's a cause we agree with, they're heroes. Otherwise it's a pathology. I guess that might be why the term makes me twitchy; most human behavior is intended to elicit a response, and usually that intention is hidden.

I think the difference is that someone with a martyr complex never lets you forget that they gave something up for you and that by some weird form of reciprocity, you owe them for being a martyr for you. Whether they actually are giving something up or not, is moot, it feels like they are to them.

A hero type martyr does it out of pure altruism, expecting nothing in return. How many people are honestly capable of being purely altruistic, well, that's another discussion altogether.

I think a key to a martyr complex means that the public has to know how you suffered to do what you actually did. It's not just credit for saving the world, but an appreciation of all you sacrificed to do so.

I've known a couple of attempted suicides. One, I think, wasn't passive aggressive, even though she knew most of her attempts wouldn't work. Somehow, and I can't articulate it, it was just aggressive. The other was pure and simply passive aggression in a whiny "my corpse has to look pretty so he will cry harder at the funeral" way, while never EVER doing anything that would even result in a headache. I have to say, I did remind her that she lived on the tenth floor and that her window opened all the way. It didn't matter. She needed the feedback--being dead would have robbed her of savouring reaction.

Sophia, your injuries sound really serious! I wish you the best and quick healing. I'm sorry.

I've thought about committing suicide several times a year since the onset of puberty. I've never actually done a run-through, but I've researched methods.

Without moving the conversation from the abstract can I say that I and all the Buffistas are firmly opposed to this. Ultimately your decision, but since you've mentioned it publicly please stay around. You are good people, and entertaining besides. We'd all feel awful no matter how discreetly you did it.

Indeed, Spidra, what Gar said. With sprinkles on top and so forth. The world needs to continue to appreciate the wonders of you in the Wonder Woman Corset.

Plus, singing!

what 'suela said.

and did you look at literary consuela?

I'm a big believer in the idea that people very often don't know the real reason they do things, but just rationalize their behavior after the fact.

Oh, me too. And I'll go dig up the book now to see if I'm remembering it accurately, heh.

ETA: Crumbs, it's not here. Which means it's either at my mom's, or I lent it to someone. How irritating.

A hero type martyr does it out of pure altruism, expecting nothing in return.

I'm thinking of people who set themselves on fire in protest. That's pretty explicitly an attempt to manipulate people, but it can still have an altruistic intent.

RIP Paul Gleason . He played the principal in "The Breakfast Club" and the bad guy private investigator Clarence Beeks in "Trading Places."

Alert: M'n'Ms has come out with special promotional Pirates of the Caribbean M'n'Ms. They are jewel-toned and some had tiny skulls and crossbones on them. How could one resist!?

I was in desperate need of a nap. I got 30 minutes; woken by phone call (unanswered); 30 minutes; woken by 2 phone calls (unanswered); 15 minutes (answered the goddamned phone.) mr. flea and Casper are still asleep after an hour and a half.

This is probably why I need naps in the first place.