Ablatives for everybody!
Buffy! If I wanted to fight, you could tell by the being dead already.
Glory ,'Potential'
Natter 43: I Love My Dead Gay Whale Crosspost.
Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.
Nutty - Mar 29, 2006 12:21:36 pm PST #7111 of 10001
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."
Topic!Cindy - Mar 29, 2006 12:24:57 pm PST #7112 of 10001
What is even happening?
My "world view" might include the belief that "It's best not to be mean to people, if possible," but that I might have come to that belief independent of any consideration whether there's a God or not....
How is it independent of it? I mean, in a sense, I see what you mean: You and I agree that it is best not to be mean to people, and we come to that conclusion despite differing views on the supernatural; I would still think it was wrong to be mean, even if my religious views changed.
That said, part of my world view acknowledges that other people have rights and deserve to be treated fairly when possible. Because you've said that when possible, it's best not to be mean to others, I feel safe in assuming you feel similarly.
Somewhere though, in what you think of the world and how it all works, and why we are here--lies the reason behind your conclusion that it's best not to be mean. It may be that you think we're all lucky to be here by accident, and it is best for society if we all play nice, and we're all we've got, but somewhere in there, there's a foundation for your reason that we ought not to be mean, and and some point back, it ties into what you think about world.
Topic!Cindy - Mar 29, 2006 12:27:54 pm PST #7113 of 10001
What is even happening?
Very easily, actually -- I know pently of people for whom the question of God's existance is completely irrelevant.
Yes, of course. So do I, but how could that (which, when leaving out supernatural boils down to "the natural world is either all we've got or all I we can know about") not inform/influence/form the basis for their moral belief? I'm not saying it predicts what the beliefs are. I think that's a naive stance and I find it offensive when I see other theists take it.
Jessica - Mar 29, 2006 12:28:36 pm PST #7114 of 10001
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset
Somewhere though, in what you think of the world and how it all works, and why we are here--lies the reason behind your conclusion
This is part of your worldview, though. Why do you believe it must be part of everyone's?
tommyrot - Mar 29, 2006 12:29:15 pm PST #7115 of 10001
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.
Somewhere though, in what you think of the world and how it all works, and why we are here--lies the reason behind your conclusion that it's best not to be mean.
See, I don't know what that reason is. I don't know where that belief came from.
there's a foundation for your reason that we ought not to be mean, and and some point back, it ties into what you think about world.
Dunno - maybe it's just part of my personality (like my appreciation of hairless cats).
Topic!Cindy - Mar 29, 2006 12:29:32 pm PST #7116 of 10001
What is even happening?
Jess, what's one thing you think is wrong (or usually wrong)?
Jessica - Mar 29, 2006 12:30:48 pm PST #7117 of 10001
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset
Jess, what's one thing you think is wrong (or usually wrong)?
I don't think that's relevant either. I want to know why you think there are reasons behind moral judgments.
Topic!Cindy - Mar 29, 2006 12:34:06 pm PST #7118 of 10001
What is even happening?
I don't think that's relevant either. I want to know why you think there are reasons behind moral judgments.I can't even begin to explain that, since any useful meaning of the word "judgment" implies reasoning.
I only asked, because thought I could explain what I meant better, if you gave me an example of your own thoughts on something that's wrong, and why. I can't know, what you think is wrong, or why you think it is wrong, unless you say it. The best I can do is presume, and then, instead of discussing, we'd be playing, "But maybe I don't think that, and so then what."
§ ita § - Mar 29, 2006 12:35:39 pm PST #7119 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Can't you argue it in the abstract? With "let's assume Jessica thinks XYZ is wrong"? It's almost distracting with actual deeds plugged in.
billytea - Mar 29, 2006 12:35:49 pm PST #7120 of 10001
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.
Everyone in the world bases moral judgments on beliefs about the supernatural (because beliefs about the supernatural include those who believe nature is the only reality--that is, that there is no supernatural).
Actually, one key conclusion I came to when leaving the church was that my moral judgments would be unaffected by changing my beliefs about the supernatural, and indeed, that this was necessarily the case. If I believed something to be good and I believed in God, but would not believe it to be good absent a belief in God, then my moral judgment and my theistic belief was flawed - as long, of course, as I held to the belief that "God is good".
To put it another way, I came to the conclusion that the moral perspective in my world view was the bedrock; and it did far more in determining the supernatural beliefs I could in all integrity hold than my supernatural beliefs contributed to my morality.