Everyone in the world bases moral judgments on beliefs about the supernatural (because beliefs about the supernatural include those who believe nature is the only reality--that is, that there is no supernatural).

Actually, one key conclusion I came to when leaving the church was that my moral judgments would be unaffected by changing my beliefs about the supernatural, and indeed, that this was necessarily the case. If I believed something to be good and I believed in God, but would not believe it to be good absent a belief in God, then my moral judgment and my theistic belief was flawed - as long, of course, as I held to the belief that "God is good".

To put it another way, I came to the conclusion that the moral perspective in my world view was the bedrock; and it did far more in determining the supernatural beliefs I could in all integrity hold than my supernatural beliefs contributed to my morality.

I'd go with Cindy's qualified statements. I think morals depend on a whole bunch of things and religious beliefs or lack thereof are one of them. There's also culture and experience (both collective and individual) and other things. Then the current culture is influenced by religion and religion is influenced by culture and it's just a big mismash.

I think morals depend on a whole bunch of things and religious beliefs or lack thereof are one of them.

You don't think, like BT posits, that morals can determine religious beliefs?

Still need the bacon.

bacon makes everything better.

You don't think, like BT posits, that morals can determine religious beliefs?

I think that's it's often the other way around.

You don't think, like BT posits, that morals can determine religious beliefs?

No, I think BT has a good point too, it's not a one way street.

I think that's it's often the other way around.

I have heard so many people say "I could never believe in a God who..." that I'm not sure it's even often. We're shaped by our environment, but that can include religions in which we do not participate. Many people seek religion, and in seeking winnow their choices with who they already are, and what they already believe is right or wrong.

bacon makes everything better.

I just went and got some, since I don't think I'll be getting home until late.

My bill came to $6.66.

How is it independent of it? I mean, in a sense, I see what you mean: You and I agree that it is best not to be mean to people, and we come to that conclusion despite differing views on the supernatural;

But - my views on the supernatural have changed dramatically from when I was younger. My "moral code" or whatever you'd call it, has not. In fact, one of the stepping stones in my journey away from religious belief was C.S. Lewis's discussion of whether good acts, done for non-religous reasons, had any value or worth to them at all, to which he answered no. (Vastly oversimplified, of course.) I would say that my views on ethics and morality are not in fact related to my views on the supernatural, much less "based on."

Chicago loves carrots. Not as much as some coastal cities, but still.

What. Ev. Chicago totally has bacon, though.

People need to stop sending me e-mails of links that are filtered from my work. I am a petulant child, and can't bear the waiting.

It beats getting no mail, but still.