I'm coming in late on the HP discussion, but for some reason, I do not judge Snape as harshly as I judge Dumbledore. I really developed a hate on for Dumbledore after his discussion with Harry re: the horcruxes.

Some of Snape's behavior could be explained away by his needing to seem like an asshole to preserve his status with Voldy's crew. However, Dumbledore using HP to locate Voldemort and not telling him even part of the truth along the way really got to me.

Harry showed such loyalty to Dumbledore always, and Dumbledore really didn't to Harry except to serve his own purposes. This really bothered me.

I do not judge Snape as harshly as I judge Dumbledore.

I judge Dumbledore pretty harshly, myself. Harry does show enormous loyalty to him, but Dumbledore hardly ever even speaks to Harry in the first three books. He shows up a couple of times and says something enigmatic, and isn't all that helpful. He can save neither Buckbeak nor Sirius, and even as Harry is maturing, he doesn't share any of the vital information with the kid most involved in it.

For one thing, there was no reason not to tell Harry at least a little bit about his parents, and their families and friends, right after Harry learned about his wizarding abilities. Why keep him so ignorant? Fine, it worked for the story, but it makes Dumbledore look pretty bad.

Dumbledore really does just manipulate Harry to get to the preferred outcome throughout the series, feeding him information occasionally, or giving him the invisibility cloak, but he is in no way a source of emotional support for the kid--and he more than anyone else has to know how much Harry is suffering. It's kind of awful.

Which brings me back to the idea that all adult institutions fail Harry, in the end. He is left on his own, with his friends.

I prefer that Dumbledore, like Snape and Voldemort, for that matter, is individuated. He is not merely A Good Wise Wizard, but rather a genius and flawed man who has made many mistakes. In this wise, he does have a tremendous kinship with Snape.

I would contrast the scene in Fellowship of the Rings where Gandalf turns in pain when Frodo says he will take the ring. Gandalf knows what a harrowing Frodo will suffer for that choice. In many ways, Dumbledore makes that choice for Harry by denying him knowledge of the Horcrux on his forehead.

Harry is crushed and feels utterly betrayed when he realizes that he must die for Voldemort to be destroyed. Of course, Dumbledore suspects but does not know for sure that the blessing magic of Harry's mother will protect him because Voldemort arrogantly used Harry's blood to be resurrected.

To his credit, Dumbledore does suffer grievously as he tries to eliminate the horcruxes, first taking the curse into his hand which is fatal, then drinking the water to get the false Horcrus in the lake of the Infiere, and finally dying to try to save Malfoy's soul. And ultimately, Dumbledore's plan is borne out. Voldemort is defeated and Harry survives.

But he's a lot more like a devious spymaster willing to sacrifice pawns than your standard issue graybeard.

I don't really "get" the Harry Potter books

waits to be ejected from the board

I don't really "get" the Harry Potter books

Well, if you listened to Jim Dale reading them you'd enjoy it anyway as he's just that good.

But he's a lot more like a devious spymaster willing to sacrifice pawns than your standard issue graybeard.

I'd agree with that characterization. He's got a master plan, and Harry's immediate emotional welfare is not going to be allowed to interfere with it.

David,

I generally agree with you, but I wish that Dumbledore had seen to it that Harry had some kind of emotional support. I would have tolerated his action/inaction a bit better if I thought he provided HP with any kind of emotional net.

He literally had NO support except for Hermione and Ron (and perhaps most of the Weasleys). I know that is the standard setup for young adult/children's lit to not have proper adult support and guidance, but it drives me up a wall.

Especially in Order of the Phoenix when Dumbeldore's distancing from Harry is purposeful, but really doesn't make much sense.

It kind of reminded me of Giles leaving.

The narrative requires that the mentor leave the hero so that the hero can grow up and take charge, but in both cases the motivations for Giles and Dumbledore leaving are very flimsy.

The narrative requires that the mentor leave the hero so that the hero can grow up and take charge, but in both cases the motivations for Giles and Dumbledore leaving are very flimsy.

And I'd argue that Giles left because he honestly thought that would be for the best and not part of some grander plan, flimsy as the excuse was. Dumbledore's reason for leaving was entirely tactical.

But the narrative didn't require Giles leave. Didn't he only leave because of meta reasons?