But the narrative didn't require Giles leave. Didn't he only leave because of meta reasons?
I'm sorry, dad. You know I would never have tried to save River's life if I had known there was a dinner party at risk.
Simon ,'Safe'
Literary Buffistas 3: Don't Parse the Blurb, Dear.
There's more to life than watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No. Really, there is! Honestly! Here's a place for Buffistas to come and discuss what it is they're reading, their favorite authors and poets. "Geez. Crack a book sometime."
§ ita § - May 10, 2011 6:18:32 pm PDT #14678 of 28295
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
DavidS - May 10, 2011 6:38:32 pm PDT #14679 of 28295
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."
But the narrative didn't require Giles leave. Didn't he only leave because of meta reasons?
ASH left for meta reasons.
Let me make the distinction in the narrative. There's the plot portion of the story as it exists in Buffy's world. But there's also the metaphorical narrative which is different, and has to clear a space in the story for Buffy to grow without her mentor.
My complaint is that these two narrative elements are not well reconciled. The plotty reasons for Giles to leave are ill-conceived compared to the fact that Buffy has risen from the dead and lost her mother and has to take on the adult responsibility of raising her sister.
§ ita § - May 10, 2011 6:56:24 pm PDT #14680 of 28295
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
But saying Giles "had to leave" for any narrative reason is mis-stating things. Was there any intention for him to leave if ASH hadn't?
erin_obscure - May 10, 2011 7:03:23 pm PDT #14681 of 28295
Occasionally I’m callous and strange
To his credit, Dumbledore does suffer grievously as he tries to eliminate the horcruxes, first taking the curse into his hand which is fatal,
Wasn't it revealed in the last book that his hand was destroyed not as part of an effort to destroy the horcrux, but because he believes the ring was the resurrection stone and was so tempted by that power that he put it on? Then Snape saved him by confining the destruction to only the hand that had worn the ring.
Yes, he did sacrifice himself with the basin potion and the inferi...which just struck me as martyring himself in Harry's eyes because he already knew the curse of the ring was killing him. He could have done far more to earn Harry's love and loyalty. It pissed me off royally that he with held so much vital information.
DavidS - May 10, 2011 7:03:25 pm PDT #14682 of 28295
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."
But saying Giles "had to leave" for any narrative reason is mis-stating things.
I don't think so. In the classic "hero's journey" the hero must separate from their mentor. This is the metaphorical aspect of the narrative, and I do think that even if ASH didn't leave then his role would have to be diminished for Buffy to emerge. So that she's not taking orders from him.
Was there any intention for him to leave if ASH hadn't?
I don't know.
erin_obscure - May 10, 2011 7:03:56 pm PDT #14683 of 28295
Occasionally I’m callous and strange
Anyone here through A Storm of Swords? Ye gods, my head is about to explode.
DavidS - May 10, 2011 7:04:34 pm PDT #14684 of 28295
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."
but because he believes the ring was the resurrection stone and was so tempted by that power that he put it on?
That's true, but I found that weakness endearing, since he wanted to see his sister and, I suspect, ask her forgiveness.
Rayne - May 10, 2011 9:08:29 pm PDT #14685 of 28295
"Oh no! Has falling sky liquid once again caused you the sadness?" -Starfire
I'm only about 20% into Storm of Swords. These books are so addicting! And horribly, horribly bleak!
Liese S. - May 11, 2011 6:40:53 pm PDT #14686 of 28295
"Faded like the lilac, he thought."
I'm just now starting the first one. But I am ready for bleak!
erin_obscure - May 11, 2011 8:58:13 pm PDT #14687 of 28295
Occasionally I’m callous and strange
I'll try to not be spoilery, but i'm loving how Book 2 separates so many characters, and then in Book 3 they start coming back together. And the bleak horrors. I did have to just stop and walk away for a few hours after one chapter. But then i went back. These books are an abusive lover.