Eh...mm. I think you can take as read my objections to that -- that I find it disturbing as well, but I don't think it provides grounds for outlawing it. Don't particularly want to end up the chan-defender here.

Chan

This is a term I'm unfamiliar with, probably because I read pretty mainstream stuff. What is it?

Eh...mm. I think you can take as read my objections to that -- that I find it disturbing as well, but I don't think it provides grounds for outlawing it.

Oh, lord, sorry - didn't mean to push you into the Chan Defender corner, and I was, rather, with my soap box - you just took me back to that whole argument thing, which just got to be HUGE. (And I got so ridiculed for saying that I could see a plausible link between chan and acts of abuse. Totally. But, damn it, I can. Not a straightforward All Abuse Is Caused By Chan, or All Chan Results In Abuse kind of link, but a plausible link, nevertheless.)

Aaaanyway, moving right along.

This is a term I'm unfamiliar with, probably because I read pretty mainstream stuff. What is it?

I only know this because of my vague involvement in HP fandom, but it means adult/child. Which is a concept that a startling number of people out there seem to think is no more morally questionable than slash.

I didn't feel pushed, just... not really up to the task of defending my convictions. Which is weak and cowardly, but there you have it.

And anyway, there's this whole other issue where characters who, if they were real people, could legally have sex in Australia, may not be depicted as having sex. If my information about age of consent is correct. Which it may, of course, not be.

Serial post to add the mememe part of the story:

I think the huge WIP may not even have involved an under-18 character, but I can't remember, and of course can't now check. On the other hand, we've received no confirmation that it has anything to do with the Australian kerfuffle, and may just be a giant coincidence. Like the time our landlord started to work on the extremely low-volume faucet in the bathroom and all the other faucets started producing only trickles, only it ended up that there'd been a water main break. Strange but true.

it means adult/child

I kinda got the feeling that's what it was.

Which is a concept that a startling number of people out there seem to think is no more morally questionable than slash.

But, there are people who find slash morally questionable. (FTR, I'm not one of them.) So, I don't feel I can go too judgy on the people who write/read chan. We do have to accept that someone we legally title a "child" may not consider themselves a child. Particularly when the hormones start urging them into sexual behavior. Personally, I considered myself an extremely late bloomer, losing my virginity at 19. Most of my high school friends had become sexually active well before the end of our senior year. It's definitely one of those "slippery slope" issues that can be talked around, pro and con, for ages.

I could see a plausible link between chan and acts of abuse

There's always a plausible link. But, just how probable is it? Not defending chan, here! Just saying. Sometimes I like to look at a controversial subject and pick at until I can get a firm grip on it and my actual position on it, not just a "what s/he said."

But, there are people who find slash morally questionable. (FTR, I'm not one of them.) So, I don't feel I can go too judgy on the people who write/read chan.

I'm merely talking semantically here, not from a point of belief, but don't let feeling slash is okay stop you from getting judgemental on other niches -- there's no reason they should be lumped together. I mean, don't judge chan if you don't think it merits judging -- but there will probably be stuff that slash-haters lump with slash that is just plain wrong.

For individual's values of wrong.

In Michigan, the age of consent is 17. It's weird now acclimating to 18. Not that I lost my virginity in Michigan, or anything. Just that the shifting position of where people would transition from "She's icky" to "She's evil" moved with the time zones.

Just odd.

don't judge chan if you don't think it merits judging

It's not that I can't judge it, I can. I'm just not sure where my line is drawn there yet. Some people don't read slash, some don't read RPF, some don't read BDSM, etc. That's why all the warnings at the beginning of fics. I hadn't thought of this before (partly because I didn't realize there was a term for it) I believe I can say I've read "chan" because I've read a number of Buffyfics where Buffy is underage and sleeping with an adult. There are times it bugs and times it doesn't and I'm still trying to decide what exactly it is that bugs. I think it has to do with agency, how much of the action is intitiated by Buffy and how well the emotional involvement is built into the plot.

but there will probably be stuff that slash-haters lump with slash that is just plain wrong.

And there's that. Whose definition do you go by? The individual always has their "take" on what is what, even with the help of dictionaries and government mandate.

But, there are people who find slash morally questionable

Yes, you're right, I know. I think I have a line here, with me really thinking 'Yes, but they're wrong, damn it' wrt people who conceptualise chan as just another kind of romance, on a par with het or slash.

We do have to accept that someone we legally title a "child" may not consider themselves a child.

Yeah, I'll happily accept this - thus the thing I said earlier about not referring to sexually mature teenagers of the Britney Spears variety. If someone has breasts and hips and is menstruating? (Or male of equivalent sexual maturity?) Not a child any more. There may be a whole heap of moral issues still in place wrt older people in positions of power having sexual relations with them, because of the relative power yada yada yada - but still, they're not children, imho.

There are a LOT of Snape/Harry stories out there, and the concept of Snape fancying 11 year old Harry and being vile to him from the word go because of displaced desire is sufficiently commonplace to pass unremarked, as far as I can gather.

... hell, I've got on my bloody soap box again, and it's all redundant and dull and ranty, and I'm sorry, I didn't mean to.

There's always a plausible link. But, just how probable is it?

I have no way of answering this, really. I'm pretty confident that abusers are more interested in visual imagery than written stuff (another reason why the erotification of the child actors bothers the hell out of me, and why erotic HP manips which use the child actors are something I find extremely troubling), but I think it's unlikely that none of them would ever stumble across NC 17 fanfic, given how small the world is and how easy it is to find things online. And HP fanfic strikes me as something that would be ideal for the purposes of normalising inappropriate relationships - far more ideal than random photographs or stories.

I have no way of establishing whether my fears are groundless, and maybe this is just a bit of a sore spot for me. These people are sneaky, sneaky, evil, opportunistic fuckers, and they use the 'net, so I think it's plausible.

t /gloomy and scaremongering

edited for Too Much Information. Um. Sorry 'bout that.

I believe I can say I've read "chan" because I've read a number of Buffyfics where Buffy is underage and sleeping with an adult

When it's canon, it seems odd to think a ficwriter would be in more danger than Joss himself.