don't judge chan if you don't think it merits judging

It's not that I can't judge it, I can. I'm just not sure where my line is drawn there yet. Some people don't read slash, some don't read RPF, some don't read BDSM, etc. That's why all the warnings at the beginning of fics. I hadn't thought of this before (partly because I didn't realize there was a term for it) I believe I can say I've read "chan" because I've read a number of Buffyfics where Buffy is underage and sleeping with an adult. There are times it bugs and times it doesn't and I'm still trying to decide what exactly it is that bugs. I think it has to do with agency, how much of the action is intitiated by Buffy and how well the emotional involvement is built into the plot.

but there will probably be stuff that slash-haters lump with slash that is just plain wrong.

And there's that. Whose definition do you go by? The individual always has their "take" on what is what, even with the help of dictionaries and government mandate.

But, there are people who find slash morally questionable

Yes, you're right, I know. I think I have a line here, with me really thinking 'Yes, but they're wrong, damn it' wrt people who conceptualise chan as just another kind of romance, on a par with het or slash.

We do have to accept that someone we legally title a "child" may not consider themselves a child.

Yeah, I'll happily accept this - thus the thing I said earlier about not referring to sexually mature teenagers of the Britney Spears variety. If someone has breasts and hips and is menstruating? (Or male of equivalent sexual maturity?) Not a child any more. There may be a whole heap of moral issues still in place wrt older people in positions of power having sexual relations with them, because of the relative power yada yada yada - but still, they're not children, imho.

There are a LOT of Snape/Harry stories out there, and the concept of Snape fancying 11 year old Harry and being vile to him from the word go because of displaced desire is sufficiently commonplace to pass unremarked, as far as I can gather.

... hell, I've got on my bloody soap box again, and it's all redundant and dull and ranty, and I'm sorry, I didn't mean to.

There's always a plausible link. But, just how probable is it?

I have no way of answering this, really. I'm pretty confident that abusers are more interested in visual imagery than written stuff (another reason why the erotification of the child actors bothers the hell out of me, and why erotic HP manips which use the child actors are something I find extremely troubling), but I think it's unlikely that none of them would ever stumble across NC 17 fanfic, given how small the world is and how easy it is to find things online. And HP fanfic strikes me as something that would be ideal for the purposes of normalising inappropriate relationships - far more ideal than random photographs or stories.

I have no way of establishing whether my fears are groundless, and maybe this is just a bit of a sore spot for me. These people are sneaky, sneaky, evil, opportunistic fuckers, and they use the 'net, so I think it's plausible.

t /gloomy and scaremongering

edited for Too Much Information. Um. Sorry 'bout that.

I believe I can say I've read "chan" because I've read a number of Buffyfics where Buffy is underage and sleeping with an adult

When it's canon, it seems odd to think a ficwriter would be in more danger than Joss himself.

If someone has breasts and hips and is menstruating? (Or male of equivalent sexual maturity?) Not a child any more. There may be a whole heap of moral issues still in place wrt older people in positions of power having sexual relations with them, because of the relative power yada yada yada - but still, they're not children, imho.

Okay, got that.

There are a LOT of Snape/Harry stories out there, and the concept of Snape fancying 11 year old Harry and being vile to him from the word go because of displaced desire is sufficiently commonplace to pass unremarked, as far as I can gather.

Although I've had male friends who lost their virginity as young as 12, it was to girls only a couple years older than them. It's still a little younger than I would prefer to see someone becoming sexually active, buts it's understandable (to me) within the realm of "normal" human sexuality. The Snape/Harry-at-11 is just downright squicksome. So, I can see where the lines are being drawn here and I have to agree with that.

I have no way of establishing whether my fears are groundless, and maybe this is just a bit of a sore spot for me.

But he was paving the way to more and more unacceptable things being accepted, and (did he but know of their existence) Harry Potter stories would be a bloody good way of going about it, and would have fitted in with the pattern of secret keeping and suchlike that he'd got going on. These people are sneaky, sneaky, evil, opportunistic fuckers, and they use the 'net.

I can definitely see your concern. The safety of the children you're teaching is one of your primary imperatives. That's to be commended. But, maybe since I've lived in the US all my life, where anyone who wants to can own a gun, I kind of see the ability to post chan on the internet as being a gun seller. The person who buys the gun and what they do with it is not the seller's responsibility. We still have laws, though, as to who can buy a gun. It's a peculiarly American point of view, I'm guessing, but it's what I was raised with and so informs my decision making processes.

Post Toasties:

When it's canon, it seems odd to think a ficwriter would be in more danger than Joss himself.

And that's just it. At least in the Buffyverse, how can we hold a fic writer culpable when we don't Joss? But, then, some people do hold Joss culpable, I'm just not one of them and they weren't powerful enough to get Joss banned from network TV. Who knows what we'd find in fic today if Joss had ultimately got yanked from TV thanks to the parent groups that protested?

There are a LOT of Snape/Harry stories out there, and the concept of Snape fancying 11 year old Harry and being vile to him from the word go because of displaced desire is sufficiently commonplace to pass unremarked, as far as I can gather.

Though, I hasten to add, not all Snape/Harry stories have anything at all to do with 11-year-old Harry. Not to say there aren't issues of age and power being dealt with, just that they're not usually pedophilic issues (so to speak).

I hasten to add, not all Snape/Harry stories have anything at all to do with 11-year-old Harry

Sorry, yes, should have said that.

And that's just it. At least in the Buffyverse, how can we hold a fic writer culpable when we don't Joss? But, then, some people do hold Joss culpable, I'm just not one of them and they weren't powerful enough to get Joss banned from network TV. Who knows what we'd find in fic today if Joss had ultimately got yanked from TV thanks to the parent groups that protested?

Of course, network TV has money and lawyers behind it. It's much easier, comparatively, to hold fic writers culpable. Particularly in more pairing-oriented stories, where the 'literary merit' argument is harder to make.

It's much easier, comparatively, to hold fic writers culpable

I don't think (witness my naivete, if you will) that laws get to do that.

In theory, if Joss had been a crap writer (no literary merit doesn't seem to prevent folk from mass media), he should be no more or less culpable than a brilliant pro writer, or a brilliant ficwriter.

It's much easier, comparatively, to hold fic writers culpable. Particularly in more pairing-oriented stories, where the 'literary merit' argument is harder to make.

Yeah, gotta agree with that. Hell of a shame as far as I'm concerned.