Maybe it's what you mean by "action" movies. They seem to be descendants of war movies, pirate movies, and the likes of Zorro.

Which would make Douglas Fairbanks, Sr., and Errol Flynn the spiritual ancestors of Stallone and Schwarzenegger.

Errrr....

I think Fred Pete and scola and juliana are all correct.

Fred Pete is correct in that Errol Flynn and Doug Fairbanks are the grandaddies of action heroes, but Bruce WIllis in the guise of John McClain is in many ways the genesis of the currect action hero model, but more importantly....

What is this story, exactly? I was trying to think of what makes the Die Hard movies different from your Typical Action Movie, what makes John McClain specifically a good hero to be running around dodging explosions rather than another Everyman.

I don't know -- I can't say specifically. The character of John McClain has just endeared himself to me over the years, and in many many ways, McClain is the gold standard I hold other action heroes to.

I'm not terribly fond of Bruce Willis the person (and S even less so, as Willis is on record as blaming the "skyrocketing rates of union crew people (which S is)," for the ridiculously ginormous budgets of motion pictures these days. Which is of course offensive and wrong -- I'm quite sure Mr. Willis' house is much bigger than any union crewperson's.

But something about the Die Hard movies, particularly 1 and 3, has made me invested in John McClain's story.

How is one defining action movie? In a way that excludes Shaft, Enter The Dragon, Star Wars, French Connection, and Beverly Hills Cop?

In a way that excludes Shaft, Enter The Dragon, Star Wars, French Connection, and Beverly Hills Cop?

I wouldn't exclude any of those movies per se (though I'd put Star Wars on the bubble of action movies).

I'd actually put Shaft, Enter the Dragon, French Connection and the previously mentioned Rambo in First Blood in the previous era of action movies. I'm not sure I can give you (ita) specific, satisfactory reasons for doing that, but those four movies strike me as belonging to a previous era.

On the other hand, I would most definitely put Axel Foley in the current crop of action heroes, and peg him as very similar to John McClain. They both certainly have the Buffy/Spiderman-style quippiness down.

But there's something about the other movies -- maybe it's their visual vocabulary -- that puts them in the previous era of action heroes for me.

Shaft

Blacksploitation/Private Eye

Enter The Dragon

Martial Arts

Star Wars

Sci-Fi

French Connection, and Beverly Hills Cop?

Police Procedural

Also, with the exception of Star Wars, while those films have action set pieces, the amount of screen time they consume is small compared to a modern action film.

There's a certain vulnerability to John McClain that makes him interesting. Otherwise, he'd just be another Schwarzenegger, biting off quotables as he's blowing people away. Instead, he limps, bleeds, suffers from bureaucratic idiots (Agents Johnson and Johnson, anyone?), all for his family.

Of course, I'm basing all this on my love of the first film. I saw the second one only once, and have never seen the third.

I don't think genres are exclusive--there are cop movies I'd say are action (BH Cop is definitely one of them) and there are ones I wouldn't. Same with martial arts movies, especially ones without Asian leads.

I admit, I hate all the Die Hard movies so far and have to stifle laughter at the latest previews. They're just so eye-rolly. I asked my friend I watched them with if McClain really was as cool as those trailers needed him to be, and his answer was "Well, maybe in the first movie."

The villain was good in the first one. And McClain taped a gun to his back. I respect that.

I think the wikipedia article is interesting: [link] It posits Adventure Film --> James Bond --> Cop Movies with Car Chases --> Die Hard. Basically.

Lethal Weapon! How could I forget that one? Yeah, it's a cop movie, and the mismatched buddy up the wazoo, but I can't exclude it from action.