I love Veronica but there are lots and LOTS of times on the show when she frankly needs someone to chew out her ass. The lines she crosses are big, fat ones, and there should be consequences, which is why I did the little dance of joy when Alicia finds out about the bugged plant from Wiedman. I kind of wish that Alicia/Keith took longer to reconciliate due to this, although what with Keith being burned alive and all, I couldn't really begrudge him the comfort of Alicia's presence by his bedside in the season finale.

Above doesn't really diminish my love for the show though, because I like that everyone in Neptune, including out protagonist, is so fucking gray.

But you gotta love the fact that she was *literally* the Woman in the Refrigerator.

Snerk! Yeah. Though, unlike Alex, not in pieces (curse you, Ron Marz). Which is probably good, being as the show's not called Veronica Mars' Body.

Above doesn't really diminish my love for the show though, because I like that everyone in Neptune, including out protagonist, is so fucking gray.

Seriously. Ethics teacher.

I'm also mildly wigged that it was somehow okay for her to date Leo, in a way that I wasn't wigged by Buffy and her Really Really a Lot Older men.

I'm also mildly wigged that it was somehow okay for her to date Leo, in a way that I wasn't wigged by Buffy and her Really Really a Lot Older men.

I think that brings us back to the reality/fantasy divide. Where Buffy is the Chosen slayer of vampires in a universe of vampires, and Angel is the emotionally-stuck-at-17 vampire, the romance doesn't seem all that implausible.

But the closer to our reality you get, the more our social understanding and moral qualms impinge on the story. Veronica dating Leo felt off to me from the beginning (although Leo was sweet and kinda dumb and that made it fractionally more acceptable to me). Which is why Veronica doing shady things on VM strikes us as more ethically questionable than if Willow did them on BTVS.

Also? Buffy saved the world. Veronica found one killer. Okay, and saved a guy from death row. We're likely to cut more slack for a situation where the stakes are higher, and the motivation clearer.

A great deal of Veronica's motivations in VM are tied to her desire to prove herself (and her father) right, and Them wrong. It's for justice, but it's also for validation and revenge; she's got rather less altruism going than Buffy does. (Although granted, it's not like Buffy has a choice, and Veronica totally chooses to obsess.)

Veronica sees the world as a research project.

Isn't Leo supposed to be a mere 22? 17-22 isn't a big squicky stretch for me.

It's not the distance, it's the relative positions. Veronica's a high school junior and he's a Cop. Even though she uses him, it still feels a bit off.

Veronica's a high school junior and he's a Cop. Even though she uses him, it still feels a bit off.

Yes, this. Squicked me a bit, too.

I get a little bit of House's vibe ("Everybody lies") off the show -- no one has a strong moral compass. Not quite the same as the gender issue, I know, but while the male characters may have gotten more play this season, none of them (aside from maybe Wallace, and Keith, to a degree) are less gray. Which I think was already said, but I'm trying to feel my way through this. Without a lot of luck, so far.

Wallace is the nearest thing the show has to a moral compass, although he doesn't come out pristine, as he's a willing accomplice to a lot of Veronica's more shady activities, esp. the student files.

I think a large part of why I'm not bothered more by the ethical misdeeds on the show is that, unlike on Buffy, where there was Right and Wrong in capital letters (not to say there wasn't moral graying on Buffy by any means), the sensibilities of Veronica Mars lie squarely in the noir territory, in which corruption is practically a default.

Good point. All the authorities we've seen are genuinely corrupt -- the Vice Principal, the new Sheriff, and most of all the head of Evil Incorporated.

Whoo, VM thread!

I had responses to some of the earlier posts, but people have already said what I would have, so, um, yeah...yay new thread!

Isn't Leo supposed to be a mere 22? 17-22 isn't a big squicky stretch for me.

Per Weapons of Class Destruction (which I just watched last night) the age difference was... twenty-six months? Something like that.