But you of course have those rights, and they're simply not at issue here-- this is not a law that hinders good parenting, or somehow prevents you from parenting. The positive obligation is on telling a parent whose child does not want guidance, encouragement, support, discussion-- all the way to forcing the issue with a court order.

This relates to Cashmere's experience.

Any parenting my parents needed to do, they did way before I got pregnant. It was my own mistake and my own choice. And I don't think the year between 17 and 18 meant a bit of difference in my maturity level so the law would have just made an already tough situation that much harder for me.

That covers my perspective on it.

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I have to step away to make dinner but it's been an interesting discussion with good points being made.

The boys want tacos.

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When I was barely a teenager, my mother said, "You can tell me anything." I believed her, but I never told her anything because there wasn't anything to tell. I was a boring kid. When I was in college, and things became more interesting, she wasn't around to tell, and I never could think of the right time to bring things up when we were together. I'm not sure how the topic came up, but one evening my mother said, "If you ever came home pregnant, I think I'd throw you out of the house." I think this was her version of the "Don't have sex till you're married" talk.

My mother's issues with the subject didn't appear till it was almost past time for her to worry about things (ie, all daughters late teenaged or older). I have no reason to believe she wouldn't have followed through on that threat.

Which is just to say a past history of non-abuse is no indicator of a future of non-abuse.

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Which is just to say a past history of non-abuse is no indicator of a future of non-abuse.

It may not be conclusive, but I do think it's indicative. Which is why investigators are prone to saying things like, "There's no history of past abuse" as if it meant something.

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And I don't think the year between 17 and 18 meant a bit of difference in my maturity level so the law would have just made an already tough situation that much harder for me.

We have to draw a line somewhere. Draw it at 17, or 16, or 18, it doesn't matter. What matters is that there be a certain age where the state treats you as an adult for this kind of decision, and conversely, an age where you are still a child and your parents need to be involved.

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The age of consent to have sex is drawn all the time, and usually not at 18, I don't think. There are generally specific difference-in-age rules, too, IIRC. Will google shortly.

Not the channel I was watching. But they did have some odd angled shots of his wife, with a strange expression on her face for the occasion. I'll bet that's why.....

Yeah, that's hilarious. At least the kid is little, unlike the little Giuliani at his swearing-in that time.

Also, that wanking-guy picture has been everywhere -- I do bet he's just holding, especially as he's looking right at the camera.

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OK. [link] So it is 18 in a bunch of states, but I think 16 is the more common. (Scroll down for the US states.)

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I don't think you're wrong. But - you're an adult, making a rational argument. There are kids out there who will feel that anything is better than telling their parents. And that's not just young women whose parents are or are likely to be abusive.

But that's largely my point. That feeling is strong enough in a kid, even when, for some kids (like all my friends who aborted) it is baseless. I don't need laws and medical personnel contributing to my teen's natural inclination to be secretive, even when it is not in her best interest to be.

Like others have said, I don't have kids, so I hesitate to speak as if I know all the ins and outs. But I believe that I would want my daughter to tell me, I would hope that I had raised my daughter to feel that she could, and at the end of the day, I would want her to have access to legitimate, responsible medical providers if she felt she couldn't, whether that feeling was based in reality or not.

That I understand. And yeah, given my druthers of a kid going back alley to avoid telling me (even if she's delusional for thinking she can't), and going behind my back but above board, I would pick behind my back but above board also, except for the fact that women sometimes die from post-op complications resulting from legal, medical abortions. And how likely is a kid who is too scared to tell her folks she is pregnant--one who has then had her inclination toward secrecy reinforced by laws "protecting" her from her non-abusive parents, and docs who've aided her in her secrecy, as if there were something to fear when there is not*, going to get up the guts to tell mother she is bleeding more than she thinks is normal, or that there might be a reason for her fever, besides a virus?

*from non-abusive parents

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That age of consent thing made me curious. 16 is age of consent for boys adn girls together, but gay sex--according to that website--is illegal. I'm not sure if that's been repealed, but if not, I know a lot of criminals.

Anyway, I became curious about age of marriage. According to one website, a boy and girl can get married with parental consent at age 14. In 1999 a bill was proposed to raise that to 16, but was defeated. ONe of the arguments against the bill was that it would "prevent a young man from doing the right thing by his girlfriend if necessary." Even though they'd have been comitting a crime by having sex.

Oh, and if the 14-year-old has been married before, they don't need parental consent.

Edit: the above applies to Utah.

2nd edit: [link] the website listing marriage age

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Oh, and if the 14-year-old has been married before, they don't need parental consent.

Okay, that kind of cracks me up.

ETA: Many states did (I think some still do?) have different age of consent for same-sex relationships.

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