Skip to 43:15 in the video. It's pretty wonderful.
Who among us can ignore the allure of really funny math puns?
Willow ,'Empty Places'
Buffy and Angel 1: BUFFYNANGLE4EVA!!!!!1!
Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.
Polter-Cow - Oct 29, 2012 1:37:54 pm PDT #9692 of 10458
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!
Steph L. - Oct 29, 2012 1:59:32 pm PDT #9693 of 10458
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe
Ahahaha, that's awesome. I'm glad he was unspoiled.
victor infante - Oct 30, 2012 6:52:28 am PDT #9694 of 10458
To understand what happened at the diner, we shall use Mr. Papaya! This is upsetting because he's the friendliest of fruits.
you make a good point. what were the point of visions if not to avoid the Jasmine bullshit?
I always thought the visions were from Jasmine, and were part of the long-con all along: Jasmine manipulated them into the position to create the conditions for her birth into a corporeal form.
sj - Oct 30, 2012 6:54:04 am PDT #9695 of 10458
"There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea."
I always thought the visions were from Jasmine, and were part of the long-con all along: Jasmine manipulated them into the position to vreate the conditions for her birth into a corporeal form.
So she was the only PTB to be sending visions all along? Did she also somehow orchestrate Doyle's death?
victor infante - Oct 30, 2012 6:55:06 am PDT #9696 of 10458
To understand what happened at the diner, we shall use Mr. Papaya! This is upsetting because he's the friendliest of fruits.
So she was the only PTB to be sending visions all along? Did she also somehow orchestrate Doyle's death?
It would make sense, wouldn't it? Doyle dies heroically, passes the visions to Cordelia, who then acts as the "mother" to Jasmine.
DavidS - Oct 30, 2012 6:57:12 am PDT #9697 of 10458
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."
That just makes the Jasmine retcon even less palatable to me.
Especially for a show which is ostensibly about defining your morality by your choices.
But they were just puppets.
sj - Oct 30, 2012 6:57:53 am PDT #9698 of 10458
"There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea."
It would make sense, wouldn't it? Doyle dies heroically, passes the visions to Cordelia, who then acts as the "mother" to Jasmine.
It makes sense, but it also makes me sad that every good deed they ever did would have a taint of evil to it.
le nubian - Oct 30, 2012 7:07:21 am PDT #9699 of 10458
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."
indeed.
brenda m - Oct 30, 2012 7:07:51 am PDT #9700 of 10458
If you're going through hell/keep on going/don't slow down/keep your fear from showing/you might be gone/'fore the devil even knows you're there
What's curious to me is that the song that Lindsey sings in the bar in Season 2 kind of maps to the Jasmine story line, or at least the Connor element of it.
victor infante - Oct 30, 2012 7:41:17 am PDT #9701 of 10458
To understand what happened at the diner, we shall use Mr. Papaya! This is upsetting because he's the friendliest of fruits.
But they were just puppets.
Skip tells them as much, and I know a lot of people like to write that bit off, but I think there's some truth to it. However, I think the show, and the resolution of the season, comes down ultimately on the side of free-will, as evidenced by Angel's rejection of Jasmine and, effectively, the Powers That Be.
And maybe it's not as clear cut as all that -- obviously, the Beast thought it neccesary to eradicate the Oracles, so there was insinuation that the Powers weren't all totally on board with Jasmine's actions.
It makes sense, but it also makes me sad that every good deed they ever did would have a taint of evil to it.
It always did. Angel could never balance the scales of evil, and indeed, most of the team ends up corrupted to one degree or another over the course of their mission: Wesley becomes more and more dark and unstable, Gunn gets turned into a lawyer by an evil law firm, Fred gets consumed by Illyria. Heck, after severing their ties with The Powers That Be, they take over part of Wolfram & Hart. A touch of Evil's always in the mix with them. As it is with most of us: Very little in this world is unambiguously good or evil.
What's ultimately important is the stand. Ultimately, that very human ambiguity -- a rejection of peace without free will in season four, and the rejection of servitude to evil in season five -- is what's revealed as important, and I don't see the manipulation by cosmic forces to be antithetical to that. At the end of the day, Team angel makes its own decisions.