And a healthy dose of sadomasochism, too.

Well, none of those 4 are really right in the head when it comes to pain. It's kind of awesome.

That's true, that may be a thing for vampires in general rather than Drusilla specifically.

But didn't Dru have serious mental health problems when she was human?

I was sure Angelus torturing her into a psychotic (ooh, yeah) break was a plot point. Lemme go see...no, wikipedia says she was driven insane by him.

But didn't Dru have serious mental health problems when she was human? She had visions, but she didn't seem to be a-ok besides that or am I remembering wrong?

My possibly-faulty memory tells me she had clairvoyant visions and therefore was told that she was possessed by the devil, or something horrific like that. So while she might have been basically sane, she was tormented both by visions she couldn't explain and by the belief that something evil had a hold of her.

I don't think it was established as canon that Dru had problems with mental health pre-vamping; she DID have visions, and was distraught in her flashback when she was talking with Angelus-who-ate-the-priest in the confessional. She had tried to not have visions, and was unhappy about her inability to stop seeing, and "wanted to be good" which implies that she worried about the visions being unholy or what have you.

Which, of course, Angelus just lapped up and told her she was a devil's child and full of evil, and started the whole ball a-rollin'. But we never really saw if or how much she was disturbed pre-confessional, IIRC.

Aaahhh, so it was Angelus who told her she was possessed or something! See, faulty memory.

Still, I think it was established well enough that she was not crazy - or "crazy" - pre-Angelus.

Okay, thanks for that folks. I could not remember either.

I don't see how he could stop you talking about a plot point and have it be conducive to discussion.

Well, you just can't use the word "crazy." Or "insane." Or "psychotic." Or...

Can I just say this sticks in my craw, and I've actually flown over the cuckoo's nest in the last 3 months.

I've seen a few commenters say similar things. I remember one great post where someone said they found the whole idea of "ableism" offensive because it equated mental illness with physical disabilities. I think they were reported for derailing.

I actually look forward to the subject. I would like to think that Mark will sit back and say, "Okay, crazy it is." IRT Dru.

I can guarantee that won't happen. There were epic threads of hundreds of comments about how terrible and hurtful it is and why are you holding on to this one word like it's your best friend. (I mean, he wouldn't even use "bitch" in his "When She Was Bad" review despite it being used in important character moments throughout the episode.)

I think that when you are talking about a non-human, I don't think "ableist" language is even at issue.

Oh, this is probably derailing somehow.

In conclusion, you can't see the stars, love. That's the ceiling. Also, it's day.

In conclusion, you can't see the stars, love. That's the ceiling. Also, it's day.

I can see them. But there's terrible confusion. I've given them all the same name.

I love you crazy bitches.