If I am anybody from Firefly , I am Wash
Flames wouldn't be eternal if they actually consumed anything.
Lilah ,'Not Fade Away'
Buffy and Angel 1: BUFFYNANGLE4EVA!!!!!1!
Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.
beth b - Sep 13, 2010 6:25:43 pm PDT #7487 of 10464
oh joy! Oh Rapture ! I have a brain!
Shir - Sep 29, 2010 11:02:50 am PDT #7488 of 10464
"And that's why God Almighty gave us fire insurance and the public defender".
For the sociologists who are following at home, here's what I ended up with wrt Durkheim, suicides and super heros:
Buffy's suicide in 1x12: altruistic (too much integration)
Buffy's suicide in 5x22: fatalist (too much regulation).
Buffy's suicide in The Wish: egoistic (too little integration).
And, in what I interpreted as another suicide, Buffy's choice to leave a world in Normal Again: anomic (too little regulation).
Matt the Bruins fan - Sep 29, 2010 1:30:57 pm PDT #7489 of 10464
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand
How are what Buffy did in "Prophecy Girl" and "The Wish" considered suicides? She got taken down by the Master in a fight both times.
Daisy Jane - Sep 29, 2010 1:33:09 pm PDT #7490 of 10464
"This bar smells like kerosene and stripper tears."
At least in "Prophesy Girl" she knew for certain she would die. Sort of a twist on death by cop maybe?
Steph L. - Sep 29, 2010 1:33:58 pm PDT #7491 of 10464
I look more rad than Lutheranism
How are what Buffy did in "Prophecy Girl" and "The Wish" considered suicides?
I wondered the same thing. I wouldn't define "going into battle knowing that you *might* die" as suicide. For one, isn't a key element of suicide *desiring* to die? In "Prophecy Girl," Buffy says flat out that she doesn't want to die.
Otherwise we'd have to call all war-related military deaths suicides, and that doesn't sound right to me.
t edit
At least in "Prophesy Girl" she knew for certain she would die. Sort of a twist on death by cop maybe?
There's that, but she still said she didn't want to die. For me, that makes it not suicide.
Strega - Sep 29, 2010 2:37:23 pm PDT #7492 of 10464
In Durkheim the altruistic suicide doesn't exactly want to die; it's about sacrificing your life for the greater good (like a soldier).
§ ita § - Sep 29, 2010 2:59:32 pm PDT #7493 of 10464
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Are all soldiers' deaths in battle altruistic suicides?
Typo Boy - Sep 29, 2010 3:47:31 pm PDT #7494 of 10464
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.
I think that some (though by no means all) Muslims count any death in battle for certain causes as martyrdom for just that reason. And that is not just right wing fundamentalists. I'm not sure what the criteria is, but it is fairly broad.
Steph L. - Sep 29, 2010 4:33:08 pm PDT #7495 of 10464
I look more rad than Lutheranism
In Durkheim the altruistic suicide doesn't exactly want to die; it's about sacrificing your life for the greater good (like a soldier).
I still wouldn't call that a suicide, then. Though if the academic point is about the gradations of "suicide" as defined by Durkheim, then so be it. But I disagree with Durkheim that being willing to die for the greater good is suicide.
I'm not even sure I'd call Buffy's swan dive in "The Gift" a suicide, although I might, given her state of mind during the latter part of the season.
I think that some (though by no means all) Muslims count any death in battle for certain causes as martyrdom for just that reason. And that is not just right wing fundamentalists. I'm not sure what the criteria is, but it is fairly broad.
Yes, but martyrdom /=suicide. (Though I'm not sure you were saying it does.)
§ ita § - Sep 29, 2010 4:54:19 pm PDT #7496 of 10464
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
I might count the death in The Gift a suicide, since it was an act so directly and knowingly resulting in her death, but not the rest.
However, I'm not an academic, so I don't get to define shit.