But Spike is enough of a horndog that "willing" is probably sufficient; I don't see him holding out for "expert".

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I don't see Spike as being the world's greatest judge of bedroom skills, either. As far as we know, his experience at that point was pretty much Drusilla -- who doesn't strike me as an especially focused lover -- possibly being used as a toy by Darla and Angelus, and anyone he might have raped. Not exactly experiences likely to teach one the Kama Sutra.

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Not exactly experiences likely to teach one the Kama Sutra.

I'll add that William, being a middle-class Victorian male, probably had experiences with prostitutes. Which really doesn't change the above conclusion.

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I'll add that William, being a middle-class Victorian male, probably had experiences with prostitutes.

You think? I suppose statistically you're right, but I just see him as too much of a mama's boy for that.

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Hey, Spike's sex skills! always fun to discuss.

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You think?

Probably but not certainly. Being a mama's boy with Victorian attitudes, he certainly wouldn't have told her if he did.

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Being a mama's boy with Victorian attitudes, he certainly wouldn't have told her if he did.

He seemed so flummoxed by women -- not just by the politics of women of his own class, but by their very material existence.

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I doubt William had been with prostitutes considering his reaction when he thought Drusilla was one.

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I don't see Spike as being the world's greatest judge of bedroom skills, either.

I don't know. Maybe not if he'd been confined to a normal lifespan, but even were he a slow learner, he had plenty of time to learn. Also, vampirism is inherently physical and sexual. If we take vampirism out of the realm of metaphor (because that metaphor is more akin to rape which is disturbing to contemplate in a discussion about sex, because it lives so far apart from sex in the most important areas), and just look at what canon suggests about vampires, it seems they are possessed of physical skills ordinary humans are not, and are more unabashedly earthy, and lusty than ordinary humans. They continue to exist only by sating their physical desires (for blood).

Spike seemed to knock Buffy's socks off. Granted, her prior experience was--as she described it at one point--barely plural, but the relationship between the two of them suggests both that Buffy is a powerfully sexual woman with a sizable appetite (which is also supported by both the pros and cons of her relationship with Riley), and that Spike satisfied it. Granted, there were a lot of other things going on with her at the time, and granted those things are probably primarily responsible for her becoming involved with someone for she held in such contempt, but had Spike been unskilled in the bedroom, I think it is unlikely that their relationship would have continued as long as it did, in the way that it did.

I'll add that William, being a middle-class Victorian male, probably had experiences with prostitutes. Which really doesn't change the above conclusion.

Hmmm. That's an interesting observation, Fred. I love when you talk about Buffy. I'd never thought of that. I can't decide if his discomfort during his first encounter with Dru supports this, or not.

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Aren't we talking two different points? You can be very good in bed and still not expect much from your partners. See "love the one you're with".

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