Hey, Spike's sex skills! always fun to discuss.

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You think?

Probably but not certainly. Being a mama's boy with Victorian attitudes, he certainly wouldn't have told her if he did.

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Being a mama's boy with Victorian attitudes, he certainly wouldn't have told her if he did.

He seemed so flummoxed by women -- not just by the politics of women of his own class, but by their very material existence.

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I doubt William had been with prostitutes considering his reaction when he thought Drusilla was one.

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I don't see Spike as being the world's greatest judge of bedroom skills, either.

I don't know. Maybe not if he'd been confined to a normal lifespan, but even were he a slow learner, he had plenty of time to learn. Also, vampirism is inherently physical and sexual. If we take vampirism out of the realm of metaphor (because that metaphor is more akin to rape which is disturbing to contemplate in a discussion about sex, because it lives so far apart from sex in the most important areas), and just look at what canon suggests about vampires, it seems they are possessed of physical skills ordinary humans are not, and are more unabashedly earthy, and lusty than ordinary humans. They continue to exist only by sating their physical desires (for blood).

Spike seemed to knock Buffy's socks off. Granted, her prior experience was--as she described it at one point--barely plural, but the relationship between the two of them suggests both that Buffy is a powerfully sexual woman with a sizable appetite (which is also supported by both the pros and cons of her relationship with Riley), and that Spike satisfied it. Granted, there were a lot of other things going on with her at the time, and granted those things are probably primarily responsible for her becoming involved with someone for she held in such contempt, but had Spike been unskilled in the bedroom, I think it is unlikely that their relationship would have continued as long as it did, in the way that it did.

I'll add that William, being a middle-class Victorian male, probably had experiences with prostitutes. Which really doesn't change the above conclusion.

Hmmm. That's an interesting observation, Fred. I love when you talk about Buffy. I'd never thought of that. I can't decide if his discomfort during his first encounter with Dru supports this, or not.

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Aren't we talking two different points? You can be very good in bed and still not expect much from your partners. See "love the one you're with".

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There are guys whose greatest pleasure in bed is making love TO their partner rather than with--in some ways, an unresponsive, or a passionate but unschooled partner is more of a challenge and more satisfying for them.

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I tend to think Harmony must have been fairly good to avoid staking after about 5 minutes of pillow talk.

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Aren't we talking two different points? You can be very good in bed and still not expect much from your partners. See "love the one you're with".

That's a good point, Betsy.

There are guys whose greatest pleasure in bed is making love TO their partner rather than with--in some ways, an unresponsive, or a passionate but unschooled partner is more of a challenge and more satisfying for them.

I think it is arguable that would have been the case for Spike, prior to Buffy. I don't know about afterwards. He commented on her prowess--seemed a little in awe of her. I think that relationship was profound for him in many ways though, and it's probably not so simple to shift the sex out from the rest of the dynamics.

I tend to think Harmony must have been fairly good to avoid staking after about 5 minutes of pillow talk.

Heh. Funnier 'cause it's true.

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Would anyone NOT chuck Harmony?

Because some of us are shallow enough to think, "I bet she looks and feels really good naked."

From Angel's point of view, FCM: Spike, Wes, Gunn. Don't let this sway your decision.

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