Willow, check you out! Witch-Fu!

Buffy ,'Lessons'


Buffy and Angel 1: BUFFYNANGLE4EVA!!!!!1!

Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.


Strega - Jul 09, 2006 9:03:42 pm PDT #3218 of 10464

I like it, but I don't think it works. The sluks say that they came into this dimension because they were running away from the Destroyer, and that it's coming after Angel. And Connor talks about chasing them later on.

And then I wondered how Connor could have possibly recognized Angel.

You don't think Holtz described him in great detail over the years?


libkitty - Jul 09, 2006 9:04:11 pm PDT #3219 of 10464
Embrace the idea that we are the leaders we've been looking for. Grace Lee Boggs

And then I wondered how Connor could have possibly recognized Angel.

I don't think he did recognize him, per se, but that Holtz had let him know what to expect. He was probably able to sense that he was a vampire, or maybe just assumed the big one in front was him. Or, what Strega said better in fewer words in xpost.

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

I probably didn't explain it well. We know that at some point, Cordy was taken over by the demon that was and gave birth to Jasmine. I had never figured out at what point that happened.

Near the end of The Price, the weird clear shrimplike things (although, they're kind of big, so maybe I should say prawnlike) that had indicated that they were afraid of The Destroyer. Or, anyway, I think that's what they called it, but in any case something like that. The, Cordy goes all glowy and and the prawnlike things all die.

It just this evening dawned on me that this is the point that Cordy was taken over. This makes some of the things she says when she comes back in You're Welcome make more sense, and it also makes me not hate St. Cordy quite as much, because St. Cordy isn't really Cordy at all. Of course, it's certainly possible that I missed something else and got this all wrong, but I'm pretty tickled at this point.


Lee - Jul 09, 2006 9:06:11 pm PDT #3220 of 10464
The feeling you get when your brain finally lets your heart get in its pants.

I always assumed Cordy was taken over when Skip demonized her.


libkitty - Jul 09, 2006 9:11:01 pm PDT #3221 of 10464
Embrace the idea that we are the leaders we've been looking for. Grace Lee Boggs

At first I assumed it was when she ascended. Then I assumed it was when Skip demonized her. But I think this makes more sense. First, the demonization was her choice, when in You're Welcome her comments make it sound like it wasn't. Then, I don't think it was until about this point that she really started acting like not!Cordy. She could have been taken over at the ascencion. That might work even better, except if she was taken over at The Price, then St. Cordy was not!Cordy, which makes me all sorts of happy.


Polter-Cow - Jul 09, 2006 9:41:52 pm PDT #3222 of 10464
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

You don't think Holtz described him in great detail over the years?

I wonder what he said. Hee. I don't know how quickly I could recognize someone just based on physical descriptions. Did Connor expect to run into Angel after punching a hole through dimensions?

Eh. Television.


libkitty - Jul 09, 2006 9:59:42 pm PDT #3223 of 10464
Embrace the idea that we are the leaders we've been looking for. Grace Lee Boggs

Did Connor expect to run into Angel after punching a hole through dimensions?

I think he knew where he was landing. That's my handwave, anyway, and I'm sticking to it. I don't even want to think about how he would know that they would be there upon his arrival.

On the other hand, Angel just "knew" Connor. Maybe Connor "knew" Angel as well.


Strega - Jul 10, 2006 12:29:04 am PDT #3224 of 10464

Did Connor expect to run into Angel after punching a hole through dimensions?

Yes. He wasn't trying to escape Quortoth, and just coincidentally wound up in the Hyperion. He was trying to get to Angel, period. That's what he used the sluks to do.

The Price:
Fred: "We have to flee. It brings pain. Such pain."
Lorne: "It? What happened to we? What's with the pronoun switcheroo?"
Angel: "What are you fleeing from?"
Fred: "The bringer of torment. Agony. Death. The destroyer."
Cordy: "Oh, that is just not the name you wanna hear."
Angel: "Why is this destroyer after you?"
Fred: "It's not. It's coming after you, Angel."

Benediction:
Connor: "The cracks were there already. I just made the sluks show me, that's all."
Holtz: "Frightened rats, forced to flee to daylight. My boy's smart."
Connor: "You shouldn't have followed me here."
Holtz: "How could I not?"
Connor: "I would have come back to you, after I killed him.


Matt the Bruins fan - Jul 10, 2006 6:06:10 am PDT #3225 of 10464
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

I think Cordy's demonization was when Jasmine began to get its hooks into her (with a free-willed choice on her part to become a demon hybrid thanks to Skip's It's a Wonderful Life mindgames), but she was still essentially in the driver's seat with gradually increasing outside influence until the end of "Tomorrow." What came back in early Season 4 was Jasmine wearing a Cordy suit.


sj - Jul 10, 2006 6:54:53 am PDT #3226 of 10464
"There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea."

I thought Jasmine didn't fully have her hooks in Cordy until Lorne tried to get her memory back for her (don't remember the name of the episode)?


P.M. Marc - Jul 10, 2006 7:02:53 am PDT #3227 of 10464
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

I thought Jasmine didn't fully have her hooks in Cordy until Lorne tried to get her memory back for her (don't remember the name of the episode)?

Slouching Toward Bethlehem, IIRC.