That's disturbing. You're emotionally scarred and will end up badly.

Anya ,'Bring On The Night'


Buffy and Angel 1: BUFFYNANGLE4EVA!!!!!1!

Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.


Monique - Aug 11, 2005 6:44:05 pm PDT #1810 of 10458

Posting here because I don't post much, so I feel bad pimping things in a general announcements thread -- but we've got a new audioblog entry up at NickBrendon.com.


Topic!Cindy - Aug 12, 2005 4:59:03 am PDT #1811 of 10458
What is even happening?

Scott and I are slowly working our way through BtVS in order. Well, not slowly enough. We just watched Revelations, which I think is the seventh episode of season 3, so we're nearly halfway through the series. There's not enough time! Actually, there's too much time, given how few episodes there are.

This is the third time I've watched at least part of Revelations in as many nights. The first night, Scott and I both fell asleep, because we've been just generally knackered. The second night, he had to do some work from home, so I put it back on, to watch it, again. Last night, he wanted to see it, so we watched it again. Although I've re-watched a lot of (most--all) episodes, I don't usually rewatch three nights in a row. I was unenthusiastic about rewatching it yet again, but am so glad I did.

I've always liked Revelations. I came in during season 3, so most of it is near and dear to my heart (and it's arguably one of the better seasons). Last night, I was able to pay attention to the sort of detail I don't usually catch. ASH's acting is generally transparent to me (which is a good thing--he's good enough I never think about his acting). But last night, I was able to take great pleasure in the subtlety of his approach to the role. His physicality and expressions--particularly when he's dealing with Gwendolyn Post, Mrs.--show so much. You can feel him wanting to take a swing at her, and keeping his body in check--relying on Giles' British reserve. You can see the tension in his shoulders. His face makes you feel his defeat.

You can feel his ease (just before she knocks him cold, and heads off to Crawford St. for the glove) in his body, hear it in his voice, see it on his face, once he's able to tell Post that his slayer's team has the glove in its possession, *and* that he's discovered how to destroy it with living flame.

Blocking, pretty photography and lighting are also elements that are usually transparent to me, unless they're glaringly absent. But last night, I noticed their presence. After the gang has had their we-fail-to-use-I-statments intervention with Buffy (the blocking of which is brilliant, from Xander's giving his seat to Buffy, on), over Angel's return and her smoochies with him, Giles sort of stands up for Buffy, and then dismisses the gang to their classes. Buffy follows him into his office to thank him.

We can see Giles is still visibly upset though, even before he says the lines to Buffy about not reminding her that the fate of the world yada yada yada, but apparently needing to remind her that not so long ago Angel tortured him, for pleasure, and for hours. During this scene, Giles is standing in front of his desk, and there's a painting on the wall behind him. It has either a sun or a moon (the painting is in shadow, so it's hard to tell). The scene is lit such that light, which I think is supposed to be sunlight filtering through one part of a side window (and really does have the warm glow of real sunlight), hits only a certain part of his face. The lighting also manages to illuminate the sun/moon in the painting, although almost no other part of the painting. It's so beautiful and subtle, it's almost as if the sun/moon in the painting is glowing, and is what is lighting up Giles face. Just thought I'd share.

Storywise, this episode is pretty integral to the season, too. It sets up Faith's alienation from the gang. It shows us how Buffy is not the only one with issues over not being the only slayer, and that Faith really needs to be "the one" to someone, which is what makes her so susceptible to Post's manipulations. Post didn't even have to break a sweat, winning over Faith. Faith is so susceptible, she continues to hold the you-exclude-me grudge, even at the end, when Buffy goes to her to try to make amends. That she quotes Post about her room being Spartan reveals so much, in so few words. It's a great set-up for her relationship with the Mayor.

Another thing I like about this episode is (continued...)


Topic!Cindy - Aug 12, 2005 4:59:07 am PDT #1812 of 10458
What is even happening?

( continues...) that everyone is wrong. The gang is wrong to jump to so many conclusions about Angel, and doubt Buffy. Buffy is wrong, to jumpt to so many conclusions about Angel, and assume he's safe. I am a big supporter of Buffy's intuition. She works best when she works intuitively. I'm not suggesting she should doubt it. But since Angel was so easily turned the last time, the risks she took here (even though time will prove her right) are enormous, and she was unnecessarily foolhardy to undertake such risk, without at least confiding in one character.

The set up for the Xander/Willow reveal in Lover's Walk ticks along nicely, too. It's a testament to the writing and Alyson Hannigan's acting, that my reaction to Willow's plight over her illicit smoochies with Xander, is more sympathetic than anything else. I'm less sympathetic to Xander during this story. True, his relationship with Cordy is an odd one. But I can understand and identify with Willow's motives much better. She had a huge crush on Xander for most of her life. Xander here, seems to want Willow, because for once, Willow is involved with someone else--someone who really interests her, and who seems crazy about her.

I'll arbitrarily stop here. It seems I never run out of ways to talk about this show, so I'll just close by saying I love it, so.


Frankenbuddha - Aug 12, 2005 5:05:59 am PDT #1813 of 10458
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

Mmmmm. Spicy braaaaiiiinnnnnssssss!


Nora Deirdre - Aug 12, 2005 5:06:25 am PDT #1814 of 10458
I’m responsible for my own happiness? I can’t even be responsible for my own breakfast! (Bojack Horseman)

of course *you* would say that, Frank.


Frankenbuddha - Aug 12, 2005 5:09:03 am PDT #1815 of 10458
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

Also - Cindy, I'm about a 1/3 of the way through Buffy 5/Angel 2 (watching them in tandem).

Let me know when you get up to that and maybe we can synch up viewing and discussion (I'm going to be slowing down on these because the friend I was going through the shows with is moving to Baltimore, so no more dedicated Buffy/Angel -which I first spelled Angle, heh - nights).


Topic!Cindy - Aug 12, 2005 5:26:42 am PDT #1816 of 10458
What is even happening?

of course *you* would say that, Frank.

Shhh, Nora. Don't make "us" get new seekrit identities.

Let me know when you get up to that and maybe we can synch up viewing and discussion
I will, but you know, there's no reason to wait. Plus, on nights that Scott is working late, or working at home, I sometimes choose episodes at random.
(I'm going to be slowing down on these because the friend I was going through the shows with is moving to Baltimore, so no more dedicated Buffy/Angel -which I first spelled Angle, heh - nights).

Heh. I was posting a comment in someone's LJ, and typed angel when I meant to type angle.

Oh, I had a question for the hivemind.

It's about the scene when Willow and Xander go back in the stacks to research Lagos and the Glove of Mynhegon, and Xander starts rubbing her temples, which leads to smoochies. Giles walks in, and starts talking to them, but we don't actually see his face or head.

Do you think he busted them, or do you think he missed it, entirely? I used to think he missed it. Now I think there's a chance he busted them, but they don't actually realize it.


brenda m - Aug 13, 2005 9:40:16 am PDT #1817 of 10458
If you're going through hell/keep on going/don't slow down/keep your fear from showing/you might be gone/'fore the devil even knows you're there

Oh my lord:

via Fandom Wank [link]

Is the slash phenomena the result of all the poor, traumatized het women who had their illusions destroyed by Spuffy?

Because the Spuffy ship onscreen was trying to force a very clear moral down our throats: There are men out there that are inherently bad for you, and if you find yourself interested in one of these inherently bad men, then that means there is something wrong with you, and you need to reject the 'bad men' and instead date 'good men' or even become celibate, if you still want to be a good person.

The S6 writers had, unintentionally, destroyed the sexual identities of a vast portion of the straight female viewers.


Narrator - Aug 13, 2005 10:02:09 am PDT #1818 of 10458
The evil is this way?

I tried to read the whole post, but my brain got whiplash from all the twisting of the logic.


Jessica - Aug 13, 2005 10:05:24 am PDT #1819 of 10458
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

Women who were attracted to the 'bad boy' type were suddenly being told that they were wrong and that they'd suffer if they acted on their instincts. It left them sympathetic in many ways to the plight of gay people, who are also attracted to a certain type (the same sex, in this case) and are told by society that they are wrong because of something instinctive and inherent within them.

Wow. Just...wow.