Or are you able to say "these noises -- this motion -- this end position" and work from there?

For me? Absolutely not, and I've probably got a lot more awareness of this kind of stuff than what Betsy describes (no offense meant to Betsy, of course).

Verbal instructions simply don't translate to body stuff -- actually, for me, verbal instructions don't translate to anything. It's the blah blah blah Ginger thing -- I also don't remember anything I heard in a lecture in 20some years of school.

I can learn by experimenting and fucking up, by reading and writing (but much, MUCH, less so by reading alone -- I have to express it in my own words), by solving the problem or banging out the code, by visuals (slowly and painfully). Tell my that I'm leaning forward too much on my lunge? I'll hear you, and say okay, and think I'm changing it, and in fact do nothing different, because the words don't translate to what I'm feeling. At all.

Basically, I had to rewire myself -- study painfully bad pictures (aha! *that's* what everyone's been yelling at me about repeatedly!), and spend many hours on "if I turn this foot 5 degrees that way, how does that feel?..." before I could get the connection. I think it's something that's learnable, but it has to be learned -- and I wonder if, when you talk about your former ring blackouts, you had the same problem and got past it unconsciously. It's not something that comes naturally, though, especially to people who aren't used to thinking/moving/training their bodies like athletes.

And then, of course, how to teach it to other people turns out to be another huge problem, now that I'm convinced that it's not just a case of people not listening.

(edit to say: massive xpostage, and I know you're not just doing verbal instructions, and now sadly I'm off to actually do stuff for a while)

I'd expect the movie actors to be better at gesture, because they have to know how not to mask the camera sightlines.

It's easier to stay out of the way than it is to use your entire body to convey something. Since the camera is so good at capturing everything that plays across your face and body, you don't have to learn the precise control it takes to display an emotion that can be read from the third balcony and still look good to the people in the orchestra.

If that makes sense. I'm not sure I'm explaining it well. I should probably just let Robin explain.

And movie actors can always re-do stuff.

Or, they fix it in post.

It's a matter of knowing exactly where each part of your body is at all times

On stage, your entire body is (generally) seen by the audience at all times. You have to be overly conscious that any single movement you make relates something to the audience, whether you want it to or not. So, you have to make sure all your movements are with purpose and don't say something you don't want said.

So, you have to make sure all your movements are with purpose and don't say something you don't want said.

Or doesn't draw focus, since there are no tight shots on stage.

Well, for screen, most of your expressions are going to be in a closeup on your face. For stage actors, no one can see them all that well, and some people don't get to see much more than stick figures, so their experessions have to be done with their entire bodies.

Verbal instructions simply don't translate to body stuff

Don't forget I'm talking about situations in which I've already moved your body into the desired position. From then on, can't you tell that when I say "pivot" I mean "recreate that kinaesthetic feeling"?

I need to be clear -- I'm not talking about standing up and telling people to do things. I'm demonstrating, pointing at my own body, and putting their bodies in position.

I don't know, other than verbal, visual, and kinaesthetic, how to communicate a desired position. If there are other ways -- please to explain.

I wonder if, when you talk about your former ring blackouts, you had the same problem and got past it unconsciously

I think it was an adrenaline/endorphin thing. It would also happen if I hit someone by mistake (struggling for a bowl, say, that cracks in half and cuts the other person -- no clear memory of the second it took for crack and cut).

I learn best by mimicking while the instructor's both talking and doing (this drives some of the teachers insane, but fuck 'em). Then I can lock together look, words, and feel, and try and reproduce on demand.

As a teacher, I also have to take my feel and make it into words, which is fun, especially when I have to take out a teensy bit of a motion and get the right visual/metaphor for it. Some people click when you say "wrecking ball" or "putting out a cigarette." Others look at you moo-cowishly.

I was watching a woman I know in a Noel Coward play yesterday, and she kept ending up having to keep her face in these really exaggerated reaction poses for way too long. It was kind of funny, but I wasn't sure if it was funny on purpose. I mean, the reaction was, clearly, but holding it for a long time while other stuff happened, nsm.

Since the camera is so good at capturing everything that plays across your face and body, you don't have to learn the precise control it takes to display an emotion that can be read from the third balcony and still look good to the people in the orchestra.

I don't want to act, but my God, would I love to do this training.