I do think, however, that US culture gives us some seriously mixed messages about sex, to the point that even those of us raised without religion can find ourselves feeling the pressure to remain chaste, and then feeling dirty when we don't.

Then there's the opposite side, which makes it sound like you're some sort of 'loser' if you haven't had sex before age 20.

Plei and Anne are both right. It's all very confusing to navigate, and, yes, brain-breaky.

From reading LiveJournal, it seems like teenagers now have less pressure to be "pure" than we had 10 or 15 years ago. The good of that is, they don't seem to be crazy guilty about being sexual/masturbating/having desire. The bad is, it seems to all be sex sex sex, and there seem to be a lot of people who (yes) aren't emotionally ready for what they're doing, and don't enjoy it, but are still haviing sex because it's expected. And then there's the added factor of "abstinence-only" sex ed, which doesn't help.

Just that *I* would never do the picking.

Oh, see, for me the issue isn't who does the picking; it's the sex-with-a-stranger aspect of it, which skeeves on so many levels other than the obvious axe-murderer one.

I keep trying to post the to the whole idea that sex is treated casually. Because I think we treat it too seriously. It is sort of like the drinking age thing - we make such a big deal over it - that the parts about responsibility are either over or under emphasised.

but that's about as clear as mud. and I have to go to work.

the obvious axe-murderer one

Right. Yes. That.

I guess I'd either sound unbelievable or totally predictable to say -- that doesn't really occur to me. I mean, I'm not going to a guy's house if I barely know him, because I'm not as stupid as I sometimes sound, but whither the knickers -- doesn't even factor into it.

On this issue, I am Hec. And sometimes it's Hec to be Hec.

There are many religious people whom I greatly love and admire and who are, I believe, strengthened and made better by their religion. The problem is that there is a powerful lobby--the religious right or whatever you want to call it--that is unduly influencing public policy in this country. Evolution, the foundation of modern biology, isn't being taught in many, or perhaps most, public schools because of fear of controversy. The funding and emphasis in sex education has shifted to "abstinence only," and abstinence only educational materials often use erroneous scare tactics about sex.

Also, I think that the result of a general cultural ambivalence about sex--it's great, it's sinful, it makes vampires evil--we don't have real discussions with young people about sex. We don't tell them that sex is great, but it usually changes the nature of a relationship. We don't explain that while they continue to have pretty much zipless fucks in the movies, in real life you have to make decisions about birth control and disease before you have sex, not after you're swept away by hormones. We don't tell them that having bad sex with one person doesn't mean they won't have good sex with another.

All of this might not do much good. Teenagers are, after all, teenagers. They have often had pretty good instruction in how to drive, but they drive too fast anyway. But it would at least be healthier.

I keep trying to post the to the whole idea that sex is treated casually. Because I think we treat it too seriously. It is sort of like the drinking age thing - we make such a big deal over it - that the parts about responsibility are either over or under emphasised.

This makes total sense to me, and I totally agree.

I keep trying to post the to the whole idea that sex is treated casually. Because I think we treat it too seriously.

And I posted above to the same effect. Depection of uber-casual sex on TV does not = culture treats sex uber-casually.

for me the issue isn't who does the picking; it's the sex-with-a-stranger aspect of it, which skeeves on so many levels other than the obvious axe-murderer one.

Same here, Teppy. In retrospect, there's a couple of guys I wish I hadn't slept with because I don't think I knew them well enough. That's my own squick, mind you.

It is sort of like the drinking age thing - we make such a big deal over it - that the parts about responsibility are either over or under emphasised.

Wrod. I was allowed to have sips of wine, beer, etc. when I was younger, so drinking was never a big whoop-de-doo for me. In fact, I have only been drunk two or three times in my life.

In a way, I think that being exposed to good, bawdy humor throughout one's life is probably the best way to gain a healthy attitude towards sex. Good bedroom farce can show that sex is fun, complicated, has consequences, etc. and make it seem like a natural part of life.

Though at this point, I'm talking about the broader culture of the religious right.

But the religious right certainly doesn't speak for all christians. There are plenty of liberal christians as well. I'm disturbed by how the religous right has become the voice of christianity when it seems to concentrate so much being anti-abortion and anti-gay and ignores social and economic justice.