River: You gave up everything you had. Simon: [Chinese] Everything I have is right here.

'Safe'


Firefly 4: Also, we can kill you with our brains  

Discussion of the Mutant Enemy series, Firefly, the ensuing movie Serenity, and other projects in that universe. Like the other show threads, anything broadcast in the US is fine; spoilers are verboten and will be deleted if found.


WindSparrow - Apr 20, 2006 10:41:02 am PDT #8271 of 10001
Love is stronger than death and harder than sorrow. Those who practice it are fierce like the light of stars traveling eons to pierce the night.

There's a distinction I make, which I'm not sure I can explain properly. It's the difference between when the manipulation comes from the storytelling, and when the storytelling takes a back seat to the manipulation.

This, for me, is the reason why I adore Tolkien's, and hate Jackson's Lord of the Rings. Tolkien tells the story, and tells it in such a way that I feel so many things, so very deeply. Watching the movie (I walked out of "Fellowship" and never looked back) I could SEE the strings Jackson was using to Try to tug on my emotions, and I could SEE the ways he was pulling. Any movie that is so transparent is a failure to me. After all, for me, Conan the Destroyer was a rolicking good time - not deep, but sufficient to keep me in the moment, and in the seat.

With Serenity, I was in the moment, in the movie, THERE, the whole way - stunned by Book and Wash's deaths, I sobbed for Zoe at their funeral like I did not sob at my own father's funeral (because there I had to keep my shit together).


KernelM - Apr 20, 2006 10:50:31 am PDT #8272 of 10001
Ankh-Morpork Watchman, Dreamer, Scooby, Minister of Grace, Still Flyin' in a Zoo2 World

It was someone on the TWOP boards that made this point long long ago, but they brought up one thing about Wash's death: It was the price the crew paid for Mal's use of the Reavers as a weapon. The Reavers aren't just something you should be able to use willy-nilly. They are a savage, chaotic, unstoppable whirlwind of violence. It was Mal's arrogance which made him believe they could be used without consequences for his own crew.

And this brings me to my recent re-evaluation of Mal's character. I've always loved him, and I always will, but I'm not sure I can see him as a hero any longer. Ultimately he is not, as much as I would like him to be, Sam Vimes, my favorite fictional hero of all time, because of one crucial thing: Vimes believes lives are always more important than causes.

Hrm. Writing this now is making me think about a comparison between pTerryian and Jossian existentialism... I'll spare y'all that though.


ChiKat - Apr 20, 2006 10:54:02 am PDT #8273 of 10001
That man was going to shank me. Over an omelette. Two eggs and a slice of government cheese. Is that what my life is worth?

So Mal can't be a hero because he puts causes before lives? I don't think I agree with that.

eta: I can buy Mal not being a hero, I just don't think this is a compelling reason.


Topic!Cindy - Apr 20, 2006 10:58:00 am PDT #8274 of 10001
What is even happening?

Refrains from trying to distinguish between 'champion' and 'hero' as that never ends well


tommyrot - Apr 20, 2006 10:58:51 am PDT #8275 of 10001
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.

I think Mal realized that since the Alliance and the Operative found out he had River, they were pretty much screwed. They could either turn River over (sending her to her death) or gamble on finding a way out of the situation.


aurelia - Apr 20, 2006 10:59:30 am PDT #8276 of 10001
All sorrows can be borne if you put them into a story. Tell me a story.

Refrains from trying to distinguish between 'champion' and 'hero' as that never ends well

Does it involve jewelry?


Volans - Apr 20, 2006 10:59:55 am PDT #8277 of 10001
move out and draw fire

It was the price the crew paid for Mal's use of the Reavers as a weapon.

Interesting. So what price for using River as a weapon? Book? Or none, because River chose to become the weapon? Or did The Alliance pay the price for making RiverWeapon with the loss of men and ships and the newswave about Miranda?

As for the other, TV!Mal put lives before causes. It seemed that he had had an epiphany after the battle of Serenity along those lines. Movie!Mal did put the cause before the lives.


tommyrot - Apr 20, 2006 11:00:44 am PDT #8278 of 10001
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.

Refrains from trying to distinguish between 'champion' and 'hero' as that never ends well

One is needed by Bonnie Tyler, the other eats Wheaties....


Dana - Apr 20, 2006 11:07:32 am PDT #8279 of 10001
I'm terrifically busy with my ennui.

Movie!Mal did put the cause before the lives.

I think Movie!Mal finally found another cause he could privilege that highly.

At a con I was at recently, we had a really interesting panel about Mal, and the way in which you could view the other characters as possessing or representing things Mal had lost. So you have Book and his faith, Wash and his humor, Kaylee and her optimism, etc.


Topic!Cindy - Apr 20, 2006 11:08:34 am PDT #8280 of 10001
What is even happening?

Does it involve jewelry?

Yes, but not the Liz Taylor stuff. Claddagh rings.