It was the price the crew paid for Mal's use of the Reavers as a weapon.

Interesting. So what price for using River as a weapon? Book? Or none, because River chose to become the weapon? Or did The Alliance pay the price for making RiverWeapon with the loss of men and ships and the newswave about Miranda?

As for the other, TV!Mal put lives before causes. It seemed that he had had an epiphany after the battle of Serenity along those lines. Movie!Mal did put the cause before the lives.

Refrains from trying to distinguish between 'champion' and 'hero' as that never ends well

One is needed by Bonnie Tyler, the other eats Wheaties....

Movie!Mal did put the cause before the lives.

I think Movie!Mal finally found another cause he could privilege that highly.

At a con I was at recently, we had a really interesting panel about Mal, and the way in which you could view the other characters as possessing or representing things Mal had lost. So you have Book and his faith, Wash and his humor, Kaylee and her optimism, etc.

Does it involve jewelry?

Yes, but not the Liz Taylor stuff. Claddagh rings.

At a con I was at recently, we had a really interesting panel about Mal, and the way in which you could view the other characters as possessing or representing things Mal had lost. So you have Book and his faith, Wash and his humor, Kaylee and her optimism, etc.

Simon and River and their hodgeberries....

Simon and River and their hodgeberries....

sporfle.

It was Mal's arrogance which made him believe they could be used without consequences for his own crew.

He never presumed there would be no consequences for his own crew. To the contrary, he told them that there was a high chance of dying.

How would you define the cause that Mal was willing to risk so much for? Combatting the Alliance? Isn't that the same cause that broke him at the battle of Serenity? Not much difference there--in fact, he's thumbing his nose at them in small ways constantly.

But I don't think that using his crew as weapons is anything like unleashing the Reavers--the Reavers are chaotic and unpredictable--his crew is there in that conflict in varying degrees because of their devotion to him and/or the same cause.

It's the difference between asking a favour of a friend and a favour of the Sidhe.

I don't think Mal thought for one second that using the Reavers as a weapon wouldn't be dangerous or have consequences. It was simply the only option he felt he had.

That said, the idea that there was a cost for using them as a weapon does make sense.

As for heroes choosing lives over causes, where does one draw the line? Most causes directly effect lives. Sometimes initial sacrifices have to be made to save more lives down the line.

If Mal chooses the option that doesn't result in loss of life, of his crew, of Alliance soldiers and instead finds away to keep fleeing the Operative, lives are still going to be lost. The Operative made it plain that he would continue slaughtering people until he got River back.

If instead Mal turns River over, that's still two lives sacrificed. River's and Simon's (because I can't see Simon stopping trying to rescue River until one or both of them is dead.) Plus, the Alliance gets their weapon back, and we still don't know exactly what she was going to be used for.

In either case, if Mal just walks away from the truth about Miranda, he's walking away from all those lives lost on Miranda, and all the lives that could be lost should the Alliance try again.

No one on Serenity was forced into the final conflict. Mal makes it perfectly clear during his St. Crispin's speech that all of them could very well die. They chose to come with.

To the contrary, he told them that there was a high chance of dying.

I really thought that he and the others believed this, too. So much of Firefly was about how they were muddling through life, trying to choose the best of really crummy options. The option Mal chose was not a good one, but it was the best he could figure out.

I like TV!Mal better than Movie!Mal, but I think Joss and Tim set it up that way on purpose. I don't think Joss really wanted Mal to be all that likable. Fox said that Mal was too dark, that the show was too dark, and Joss lightened. But clearly Joss went back to his original vision with the movie. Personally, I think that asking Joss and Tim to lighten the show is perhaps the only good thing I attribute to Fox.

I loved Wash, and his death broke my heart. I, too, gasped and cried and was in total shock when I first saw it. I, too, missed many of the details the first time through because of the shock. But I think it worked.

Book's death saddened me and disappointed me. I expect more from Joss. I thought it was done poorly, and I was frustrated because I wanted the second movie to be about his backstory. I felt his death was a waste.

I understand how many feel overwhelmed by Wash's death, but for me it was real and it was important. It was perfect Joss.