Oh Book's death keeled me ded. I was mourning and cursing his loss, so when Wash got cut down, I just really had no purchase for my investment any more, and realized at that point that the whole movie, and the series before it, had really been All About River, and I felt completely used, fooled, and betrayed, and just couldn't summon up the interest to care anymore.

I *hated* Book's death because it felt to me like cliche. The old guy goes down--first you marginalize him off the ship, then you cut him down. I know, I know, all those innocent people, yadda yadda, I don't really care about them. I care about my crew, and Book is part of that crew, with fascinating byplay among the other crew members, and intriguing backstory, and though affable and gentle-seeming can go all steely-scary in a hot second, and speaking of hot--the eyes and the voice, and well, yes, the *face* on that man? ::fans self:: So his death felt cliched to me, but I realize the necessity for the audience actually caring about all those innocent people and having Book front for them, emotionally, worked. I hated it, but it worked.

But then Wash was the next logical cliche--destroy the happy, sexy marriage. Which, you know, I would have been furious about if it had been Zoe who went down, but furious *at the Reavers*, and it would have kept me in the story. It would have been of enormous interest, compelling interest, to see how Wash handled her loss, and even moreso, how Mal went forward from there.

Or if Zoe (and *no I don't* want to lose Zoe, but it would have been the more interesting choice for me) is too valuable to lose, then it would have been incredibly, heartbreakingly ironic and painful for Simon to break his baby sis out, get her "safely" away and through her "I'm all right!" moment, and then to die himself. Young, bright, the whole universe ahead of him, bam, gone, randomosity of death lesson.

I thought the character choices, aside from the fact that they were the two characters I was most interested and invested in, were the most "easily" disposable, and had it not been for the background of the series, I'd have seen them both wearing red shirts from the beginning of the movie.

I felt completely used

Used? Really? I can't imagine fiction using me.

Also, I don't feel that Wash was more of a redshirt than Kaylee, and I know more than one person who thought that either River or Simon would bite it.

Sometimes hindsight is more than 20/20, and in the bad way. Zoe and Jayne didn't stand out enough to die, Inara was almost the same, and there was no way our Captain was going to buy it.

I understand that people don't like the death, thought it was too much, etc, but I also think a lot is being read into what I hear was a practical decision as much as it was a narrative one. Tudyk was not going to live through the end of the movie.

Given that--what are the narrative alternatives?

Beverly, what I meant to post was that I had already suffered the death of a character in whom I was invested. Wash's felt like overkill. I suppose for people who were seeing the film without having seen the series, Book's death mattered little, but it was plenty enough for me.

Used? Really? I can't imagine fiction using me.

I didn't get the feeling so much from Serenity, but the one time I really felt I was being manipulated was when Gary died on thirtysomething.

I have a distinction between manipulated and used that I may be projecting into other people's posts.

Well, I as a person don't feel manipulated, but my emotions often are. Sometimes deftly, sometimes cheaply, but it's kinda why I show up in the first place.

I thought the senselessness and suddenness of Wash's death made a lot more sense than the Book's Grand Guignol death, which couldn't have possibly mattered to people who didn't watch the series.

I didn't get the feeling so much from Serenity, but the one time I really felt I was being manipulated was when Gary died on thirtysomething.

I hated Gary, and cheered. But Hope's miscarriage gutted me, long before my own reproductive adventures in unwonderland. But then, thirtysomething was the most passive-aggressive emotionally manipulative bad for me relationship I ever had with a tv show.

Sometimes deftly, sometimes cheaply, but it's kinda why I show up in the first place.

There's a distinction I make, which I'm not sure I can explain properly. It's the difference between when the manipulation comes from the storytelling, and when the storytelling takes a back seat to the manipulation.

Wash's death manipulated me in all the ways I think it was supposed to--utterly shocking and ratcheting up the tension. The first time I saw the movie, I was completely in shock from there till the end. At that point *anybody* could die, and I was truly afraid they would--Zoe, then Kaylee, then (especially) Simon. I didn't take in a lot of details of the end of the movie till my second and subsequent (let's not count, shall we?) viewings.

So, yes, manipulated, but that didn't bother me. Rather, it worked to hammer home the peril. Not that Wash dying doesn't bother me, because it *hurts*, a lot.

I can also project some interesting future times for a Serenity which has lost both of its moral compasses.

Gary died on thirtysomething.

!

I don't think I knew this! I think college interfered with my viewing somewhere along the line.