Funny - I think that Wash's death was the moment I decided the movie was more than just fun, but had actual greatness. I screamed, and tears flew out of my eyes, and I was hyper-ventilating for the rest of the film - and I was in it.

Maybe my acceptance of Wash's death has something to do with the fact that, though I always loved Wash, from the moment with the dinosaurs, he was never my favorite character, never one I was totally emotionally invested in. In fact, I feel like right with Joss on how I saw the series; for me, it was always All About River. And Mal. The greatest episodes of the series, in my opinion, can easily be split into the Simon/River Episodes (Ariel, Objects in Space) and the Mal Episodes (Out of Gas, War Stories), and I always felt that these were The Arcs. Wash, Book, Kaylee, Jayne, Inara, even Zoe - these characters existed to further those stories. Sure, they were very well developed characters, and certainly had fascinating stories of their own to tell, but they were always secondary, always at risk.

And I also think, to some extent, any of them were disposable in the right movie script. Kill Jayne whenever you want - it's easy. Kill Inara just so she can fall into Mal's arms and send him into a fit or vengeful rage - easy. Kill Kaylee for exactly the same reason. She'd die with such sadness - it would be Tara's death all over again. Shocking, random, and the entire crew would go all vengeful. Easy peasy. Kill Simon exactly when he got wounded, so that River's killing spree is motivated by revenge more than rescue - easy. From the perspective of a series watcher, none of the deaths are easy. The characters are all too meaningful. But from the perspective of the movie watcher, any one of them - or all of them - could have been set up to be the red shirts.

I didn't feel the series was all about River, but that having the movie be about her mystery (I was curious after all) might make the series seem like that, iff the movie was the natural next step.

But it wasn't. Episode 14 was the natural next step. Serenity (and no sequels) was the best I could get out of a bad situation. It doesn't change the series for me, except for adding sadness to rewatches.

I screamed, and tears flew out of my eyes, and I was hyper-ventilating for the rest of the film - and I was in it.

I think I'm watching movies wrong.

Heh. I tend to get into movies pretty hardcore, especially in a theatrical environment. But my reactions to Serenity were extreme by even my standards. I think it had to do with a) my connection to the series, b) my expectations, and c) the environment I saw it in. It was one of the preview screenings, so everybody there was way into the movie.

But I also sobbed at two separate places in The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants. Movies get at my emotions.

Well, I as a person don't feel manipulated, but my emotions often are.

What I should have said, I guess. I felt "used" in the sense that my emotions were manipulated beyond the point of where fiction can take me.

I wasn't spoiled for Wash's death, or for Tudyk's wish to quit the franchise. If I had been, maybe I could have accepted the death with more grace. Earlier in the film might have helped, too, to give Zoe and us a chance to grieve. By the pretty sunset funeral scene I was so past caring it was all, yeah, pretty. Gorgeous dress. Gina's doing that regal mourning thing beautifully. Oh those headstones are so damn cheesy. What time is it? Is there time for pizza before bedtime? Is this thing gonna end, like, ever? Can we go now?

It's the difference between when the manipulation comes from the storytelling, and when the storytelling takes a back seat to the manipulation.

This. So much this.

Wash's death manipulated me in all the ways I think it was supposed to--utterly shocking and ratcheting up the tension. The first time I saw the movie, I was completely in shock from there till the end. At that point *anybody* could die, and I was truly afraid they would--Zoe, then Kaylee, then (especially) Simon.

I wasn't. I simply stopped caring. I wasn't involved or invested. It was just flickers on the screen.

So, yes, manipulated, but that didn't bother me. Rather, it worked to hammer home the peril. Not that Wash dying doesn't bother me, because it *hurts*, a lot.

What upsets me is that Wash's death *didn't* hurt me. Because at that moment Wash stopped being a character I cared about and became an actor playing dead in a silly suit.

But I said at the time, I'm glad the movie got made. I support it, and everyone who had a stake in getting it into theaters, and I even bought the dvd knowing I'd never watch it. It wasn't my movie, and it's not part of my canon.

Don't get me wrong, I still love the series, and I still enjoy Serenity. I watched it multiple times in the theatre, and have watched it several times on DVD as well.

But during that first viewing I shut myself down during the finale because I cared too much about these characters and Wash's death, immediately on the heels of Serenity getting torn up left me emotionally overwhelmed to the point where I simply couldn't care anymore. I had lost all investment in the story. Afterward that first viewing, I felt incredibly betrayed. It felt like we'd gotten our crew back only have them mercilessly killed and beaten before our eyes. I had wanted to come out of the theatre overjoyed at seeing my crew again and instead had had my gut ripped out.

After time had passed, I was able to rewatch prepared for what was going to happen and enjoy the movie for what it was. I just wish I could love it like I do Firefly.

And it does taint my viewing for Firefly, certain moments from the series strike me as sad or bittersweet knowing what I do about what happens next. Kaylee, Book and Wash continue to be my favorite characters, and while it's highly unlikely we'll see anymore about any of the crew, the fact that there is no future left for Book or Wash at all hurts the most.

My new employee saw my Serenity poster on the wall of my office (just one of the little 8x11 ones from the previews) and said she'd just seen the movie. Liked it a lot, never seen the show. I told her she has to see the show.

I'm a mean boss.

(Makes note for next employee review: Goal 1: Watch Firefly.)

For me, the death of someone in whom I was invested--that happened when Book died.

For me too. But I was too close to the series the first time I saw the movie - I watched OiS right before plugging in Serenity. This viewing, Book just seemed an awful lot like the Spiritual Negro. Spiritual Old Negro Who Must Die. And I hated that he somehow lived right until Mal got there, then died. And I hated that the doctor arrived 2 seconds later and was like, "Oh dang, dude's dead." I mean, even today we'd try something. (And yeah, big old hole in Shepard's gut, and no crash cart, but Simon should've tried ).

and had it not been for the background of the series, I'd have seen them both wearing red shirts from the beginning of the movie.

Yep. Maybe Inara also, but she was actually TOO marginal and out-of-focus fuzzy-around-the-edges NPC to be a red shirt.

I also think a lot is being read into what I hear was a practical decision as much as it was a narrative one

This is my concern. I think it was mostly a practical decision.

For me it didn't do anything for the story. Nobody's character arc changed because of Wash's death. The path of the plot didn't change; they still went in to Mr. Universe's place. It did something for most viewer's emotions, either good or bad, but didn't turn the story at all. It would've been fine in a TV series, where the story developments from it could happen later, but I just didn't get it in the movie.

I can also project some interesting future times for a Serenity which has lost both of its moral compasses.

Like this, for example. Maybe Zoe, who is a moral compass, will step up to the plate.

I didn't like the retcon of Simon's character. I didn't like the marginalizing and relegating every character to thumbnail stereotype but River and Mal. I do realize it was a movie, an encapsuled version of the story Joss always had in mind, the main thread of which was little girl in jeopardy is stronger than anybody (it's his theme), but I missed the threads of the others, which were always more important to me than River.

To me, River was only interesting as one of an ensemble, not as the jewel for whom the rest of the cast was merely the setting.

Erm. Sorry. Yeah, I have issues.

Once again, Beverly speaks for me. I mean, I always got that River was the overall story arc, but I really enjoyed the group dynamic with all nine characters fully realized. If the TV show had been about River, I wouldn't have invested.

OK, next question. Why was The Alliance training teenage assassins anyway? The hegemony normally doesn't have to fall back on tiny sleeper agents - that's a tool of guerilla fighters, resistance fighters. The Alliance either sends an Operative, or a fleet, or both.

I have some ideas, but they are all pretty tenuous midrashes. I might use them for a Serenity game, but I doubt they are the real reason.

And I hated that he somehow lived right until Mal got there, then died. And I hated that the doctor arrived 2 seconds later and was like, "Oh dang, dude's dead."

Yeah, I hated that, too. It was all arbitrary and cliched.

Nobody's character arc changed because of Wash's death.

I certainly agree that they could have handled it better by making it a more integral part of the story, but I think he was the best lamb to slaughter from the crew: likeable but a bit removed from the action.

There's a distinction I make, which I'm not sure I can explain properly. It's the difference between when the manipulation comes from the storytelling, and when the storytelling takes a back seat to the manipulation.

This, for me, is the reason why I adore Tolkien's, and hate Jackson's Lord of the Rings. Tolkien tells the story, and tells it in such a way that I feel so many things, so very deeply. Watching the movie (I walked out of "Fellowship" and never looked back) I could SEE the strings Jackson was using to Try to tug on my emotions, and I could SEE the ways he was pulling. Any movie that is so transparent is a failure to me. After all, for me, Conan the Destroyer was a rolicking good time - not deep, but sufficient to keep me in the moment, and in the seat.

With Serenity, I was in the moment, in the movie, THERE, the whole way - stunned by Book and Wash's deaths, I sobbed for Zoe at their funeral like I did not sob at my own father's funeral (because there I had to keep my shit together).