Nobody can tell Marmaduke what to do. That's my kind of dog.

Trick ,'First Date'


Firefly 4: Also, we can kill you with our brains  

Discussion of the Mutant Enemy series, Firefly, the ensuing movie Serenity, and other projects in that universe. Like the other show threads, anything broadcast in the US is fine; spoilers are verboten and will be deleted if found.


Tom Scola - Apr 20, 2006 7:54:28 am PDT #8259 of 10001
Remember that the frontier of the Rebellion is everywhere. And even the smallest act of insurrection pushes our lines forward.

Sometimes deftly, sometimes cheaply, but it's kinda why I show up in the first place.

There's a distinction I make, which I'm not sure I can explain properly. It's the difference between when the manipulation comes from the storytelling, and when the storytelling takes a back seat to the manipulation.


Una - Apr 20, 2006 7:54:43 am PDT #8260 of 10001
when i die, please bake my ashes into a brick and use me to hit fascists.

Wash's death manipulated me in all the ways I think it was supposed to--utterly shocking and ratcheting up the tension. The first time I saw the movie, I was completely in shock from there till the end. At that point *anybody* could die, and I was truly afraid they would--Zoe, then Kaylee, then (especially) Simon. I didn't take in a lot of details of the end of the movie till my second and subsequent (let's not count, shall we?) viewings.

So, yes, manipulated, but that didn't bother me. Rather, it worked to hammer home the peril. Not that Wash dying doesn't bother me, because it *hurts*, a lot.

I can also project some interesting future times for a Serenity which has lost both of its moral compasses.


aurelia - Apr 20, 2006 7:58:35 am PDT #8261 of 10001
All sorrows can be borne if you put them into a story. Tell me a story.

Gary died on thirtysomething.

!

I don't think I knew this! I think college interfered with my viewing somewhere along the line.


Gris - Apr 20, 2006 8:00:00 am PDT #8262 of 10001
Hey. New board.

Funny - I think that Wash's death was the moment I decided the movie was more than just fun, but had actual greatness. I screamed, and tears flew out of my eyes, and I was hyper-ventilating for the rest of the film - and I was in it.

Maybe my acceptance of Wash's death has something to do with the fact that, though I always loved Wash, from the moment with the dinosaurs, he was never my favorite character, never one I was totally emotionally invested in. In fact, I feel like right with Joss on how I saw the series; for me, it was always All About River. And Mal. The greatest episodes of the series, in my opinion, can easily be split into the Simon/River Episodes (Ariel, Objects in Space) and the Mal Episodes (Out of Gas, War Stories), and I always felt that these were The Arcs. Wash, Book, Kaylee, Jayne, Inara, even Zoe - these characters existed to further those stories. Sure, they were very well developed characters, and certainly had fascinating stories of their own to tell, but they were always secondary, always at risk.

And I also think, to some extent, any of them were disposable in the right movie script. Kill Jayne whenever you want - it's easy. Kill Inara just so she can fall into Mal's arms and send him into a fit or vengeful rage - easy. Kill Kaylee for exactly the same reason. She'd die with such sadness - it would be Tara's death all over again. Shocking, random, and the entire crew would go all vengeful. Easy peasy. Kill Simon exactly when he got wounded, so that River's killing spree is motivated by revenge more than rescue - easy. From the perspective of a series watcher, none of the deaths are easy. The characters are all too meaningful. But from the perspective of the movie watcher, any one of them - or all of them - could have been set up to be the red shirts.


§ ita § - Apr 20, 2006 8:03:58 am PDT #8263 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I didn't feel the series was all about River, but that having the movie be about her mystery (I was curious after all) might make the series seem like that, iff the movie was the natural next step.

But it wasn't. Episode 14 was the natural next step. Serenity (and no sequels) was the best I could get out of a bad situation. It doesn't change the series for me, except for adding sadness to rewatches.


Allyson - Apr 20, 2006 8:10:53 am PDT #8264 of 10001
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica

I screamed, and tears flew out of my eyes, and I was hyper-ventilating for the rest of the film - and I was in it.

I think I'm watching movies wrong.


Gris - Apr 20, 2006 8:43:33 am PDT #8265 of 10001
Hey. New board.

Heh. I tend to get into movies pretty hardcore, especially in a theatrical environment. But my reactions to Serenity were extreme by even my standards. I think it had to do with a) my connection to the series, b) my expectations, and c) the environment I saw it in. It was one of the preview screenings, so everybody there was way into the movie.

But I also sobbed at two separate places in The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants. Movies get at my emotions.


Beverly - Apr 20, 2006 8:50:32 am PDT #8266 of 10001
Days shrink and grow cold, sunlight through leaves is my song. Winter is long.

Well, I as a person don't feel manipulated, but my emotions often are.

What I should have said, I guess. I felt "used" in the sense that my emotions were manipulated beyond the point of where fiction can take me.

I wasn't spoiled for Wash's death, or for Tudyk's wish to quit the franchise. If I had been, maybe I could have accepted the death with more grace. Earlier in the film might have helped, too, to give Zoe and us a chance to grieve. By the pretty sunset funeral scene I was so past caring it was all, yeah, pretty. Gorgeous dress. Gina's doing that regal mourning thing beautifully. Oh those headstones are so damn cheesy. What time is it? Is there time for pizza before bedtime? Is this thing gonna end, like, ever? Can we go now?

It's the difference between when the manipulation comes from the storytelling, and when the storytelling takes a back seat to the manipulation.

This. So much this.

Wash's death manipulated me in all the ways I think it was supposed to--utterly shocking and ratcheting up the tension. The first time I saw the movie, I was completely in shock from there till the end. At that point *anybody* could die, and I was truly afraid they would--Zoe, then Kaylee, then (especially) Simon.

I wasn't. I simply stopped caring. I wasn't involved or invested. It was just flickers on the screen.

So, yes, manipulated, but that didn't bother me. Rather, it worked to hammer home the peril. Not that Wash dying doesn't bother me, because it *hurts*, a lot.

What upsets me is that Wash's death *didn't* hurt me. Because at that moment Wash stopped being a character I cared about and became an actor playing dead in a silly suit.

But I said at the time, I'm glad the movie got made. I support it, and everyone who had a stake in getting it into theaters, and I even bought the dvd knowing I'd never watch it. It wasn't my movie, and it's not part of my canon.


Kalshane - Apr 20, 2006 8:55:26 am PDT #8267 of 10001
GS: If you had to choose between kicking evil in the head or the behind, which would you choose, and why? Minsc: I'm not sure I understand the question. I have two feet, do I not? You do not take a small plate when the feast of evil welcomes seconds.

Don't get me wrong, I still love the series, and I still enjoy Serenity. I watched it multiple times in the theatre, and have watched it several times on DVD as well.

But during that first viewing I shut myself down during the finale because I cared too much about these characters and Wash's death, immediately on the heels of Serenity getting torn up left me emotionally overwhelmed to the point where I simply couldn't care anymore. I had lost all investment in the story. Afterward that first viewing, I felt incredibly betrayed. It felt like we'd gotten our crew back only have them mercilessly killed and beaten before our eyes. I had wanted to come out of the theatre overjoyed at seeing my crew again and instead had had my gut ripped out.

After time had passed, I was able to rewatch prepared for what was going to happen and enjoy the movie for what it was. I just wish I could love it like I do Firefly.

And it does taint my viewing for Firefly, certain moments from the series strike me as sad or bittersweet knowing what I do about what happens next. Kaylee, Book and Wash continue to be my favorite characters, and while it's highly unlikely we'll see anymore about any of the crew, the fact that there is no future left for Book or Wash at all hurts the most.


Consuela - Apr 20, 2006 8:59:26 am PDT #8268 of 10001
We are Buffistas. This isn't our first apocalypse. -- Pix

My new employee saw my Serenity poster on the wall of my office (just one of the little 8x11 ones from the previews) and said she'd just seen the movie. Liked it a lot, never seen the show. I told her she has to see the show.

I'm a mean boss.

(Makes note for next employee review: Goal 1: Watch Firefly.)