They're doing it backwards; walking up the down slide.

River ,'Ariel'


Firefly 4: Also, we can kill you with our brains  

Discussion of the Mutant Enemy series, Firefly, the ensuing movie Serenity, and other projects in that universe. Like the other show threads, anything broadcast in the US is fine; spoilers are verboten and will be deleted if found.


DebetEsse - Feb 04, 2005 8:16:47 am PST #570 of 10001
Woe to the fucking wicked.

From my semi-vague sociology recollection:

Male social groups tend to like explicit rules and heirarchies and value mastery (of a subject/skill/whatever), while female groups tend to be more relationship-based (and with fewer explicit rules) and open to exceptions, valuing relationships. So, yeah, the military's pretty male.


P.M. Marc - Feb 04, 2005 8:17:19 am PST #571 of 10001
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

You never questioned any of those people when they told you to do something, you just did it.

Well, you may never have, but I'm a horrible brat. *g*

I'm shocked they haven't pushed me out the airlock.


arby - Feb 04, 2005 8:19:46 am PST #572 of 10001
Guy #1: Man, there are so many hipsters around. I hate hipsters! Guy #2: You're at the wrong place. That's like going to Vegas only to say "I hate titties!" --The Warsaw, Williamsburg (OINY)

Psychological studies show that a father's influence on his son tends to manifest as modeling proper (socialized?) ways to express aggression.

See, to me this says Sports. And also Work. And War. Socially acceptable outlets for aggression.

In my (extremely limited - meaning I know two guys, but they both act the same way) experience with men who grew up fatherless/without a constant (meaning "same person always there") male role model, I see a certain insecurity in them around how to be a man - always trying to prove themselves physically, defensive about their masculinity - and a barely-suppressed resentment towards women, especially strong ones. Very sensitive to perceived "bossiness" of tone coming from a woman. (It's almost like they blame their moms for not being dads.)

Contrast this with men who had an unreliable/disapproving father [figure] - they may be unhappy with themselves but they know who they are as men.

I was going to talk about women raised without fathers too but sense that I am veering into unintentional Electra syndrome talk so I'm stopping now.

All IMHO, YMMV etc obviously

ETA Shoulda listened to Hec:

Any gender generalizing always gets hammered.


SailAweigh - Feb 04, 2005 8:20:27 am PST #573 of 10001
Nana korobi, ya oki. (Fall down seven times, stand up eight.) ~Yuzuru Hanyu/Japanese proverb

Well, you may never have, but I'm a horrible brat. *g*

I was too afraid of my grandfather. He could deadlift an anvil with one arm. Freaky strong. And he wasn't afraid to show his wrath.


sfmarty - Feb 04, 2005 8:24:26 am PST #574 of 10001
Who? moi??

Zoe and Mal have the same body language. Complete confidence in how they move. Book has it to a degree, but none of the others. There is a calmness about the three of them, each in their own way. To me it is obvious that whoever parented them, mom, farm hands, tutors, they gave the children a sense of worth.

Whatever their backgrounds you know that if something was needed, and they didn't have it, they could invent a substitue without much fuss.

Beverly, wonderful call on Kaylee.


sfmarty - Feb 04, 2005 8:26:07 am PST #575 of 10001
Who? moi??

Arby, I don't think my son, Nic, reacts like that.


Gus - Feb 04, 2005 8:29:14 am PST #576 of 10001
Bag the crypto. Say what is on your mind.

Zoe and Mal have the same body language.

Both actors are from a dance background, right? Maybe we're reading a bunch of stuff into that fact.

Although... River gave no martial air, and the actor there was certainly from a dance background.


DavidS - Feb 04, 2005 8:32:37 am PST #577 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Male social groups tend to like explicit rules and heirarchies and value mastery (of a subject/skill/whatever), while female groups tend to be more relationship-based (and with fewer explicit rules) and open to exceptions, valuing relationships. So, yeah, the military's pretty male.

This is interesting when applied to Mal. Because on the surface he projects the male value set (values the skills of Kaylee, Zoe, Simon, Wash) and his explicit unquestioned authority. But in action he frequently (almost begrudgingly) exhibits the female value set: makes exceptions (doesn't space Jayne, takes on Simon and River despite the inherent danger to his ship), and obviously values relationships (perhaps most explicitly with Kaylee, though clearly also with Zoe).

Another thing about Mal is that while he doesn't brook anybody questioning his orders, he does actually listen to this crew and make adjustments.


Sue - Feb 04, 2005 8:36:11 am PST #578 of 10001
hip deep in pie

arby - Feb 04, 2005 8:40:48 am PST #579 of 10001
Guy #1: Man, there are so many hipsters around. I hate hipsters! Guy #2: You're at the wrong place. That's like going to Vegas only to say "I hate titties!" --The Warsaw, Williamsburg (OINY)

Like I said, I only know the two guys, so a totally unscientific sample population. Probably says more about me (that I am friends with them) than it does about men raised by single moms.