Bale also has the advantage of what is, except in name, the kind of cult usually associated with fringe religious leaders. After 8 years of Buffy fandom, I can say that I've never seen a Kitten or Spike apologist that strikes me as being so fanatical as the more extreme Bale-heads.

DiCaprio better be glad he got talked out of the American Psycho role by Christian's stepmother rather than some of Bale's less stable fans showing up in his home late one night after hearing that he took the part.

I was going to say, when people say to me "a Denzel Washington movie", my brain jumps to Courage Under Fire -- upstanding man with integrity unravels his own Secret Pain while unraveling the central mystery. Considering it wasn't a hit, I'm surprised that's what comes to mind, and the discussion so far has come up with plenty of other roles Denzel has taken. Still, that's what sticks in my mind.

Which, coincidentally, was also a non-traditional Meg Ryan movie (and Matt Damon's first big role, at least with critics).

DiCaprio better be glad he got talked out of the American Psycho role by Christian's stepmother rather than some of Bale's less stable fans showing up in his home late one night after hearing that he took the part.

I don't even want to contemplate what kind of fan stuff Bale got sent for that movie. The Huey Lewis and Phil Collins cds alone would be enough to send me over the edge.

Matt Damon's first big role, at least with critics

I remember watching that movie and not recognizing he was the same guy as in (the bad western) Geronimo. Some of the books I've worked on quote him when they talk about anorexia, because AFAIk he's one of the few cases of "professional" anorexia who (a) did it the wrong way and became a head case, (b) snapped out of it without becoming tabloid fodder, and (c) has talked about the psychological aspects openly.

Also, I mean, what textbook doesn't want to quote movie stars?

Yeah, he's talked in interviews about how he thought Lou Diamond Phillips was so fat, while they were filming.

Was that because he was doing that weirdo dieting to look like a heroin addict?

the other (heretofore known as the "right" camp, as it's the one I'm in) feels that it doesn't work as satire because the commentary needs to be read into it, rather than being there to be understood. For the right camp, it's a flat sci-fi film loaded with dull 2-D characters.

I cannot accept Starship Troopers as satire because I don't think it can actually be satire if you're in favor of the fetishized fascism presented in the movie, as the writer and director seem to be.

Although I do like to watch it and point and laugh, as I do with many baaaad big budget movies. ID4 falls into this category for me as well.

I was going to say, when people say to me "a Denzel Washington movie", my brain jumps to Courage Under Fire --

I'm kind of with Jesse and Nutty in the type of character that springs to mind when I think of Denzel films. Sure, it's maybe lately not supported by the facts, but people's feelings and impressions rarely are.

Also, if the Denzel movie departs from that upstanding-man-of-honor image, I'm not disappointed, but probably intruigued, and will still be interested in seeing it.

Then you're in luck, Sean. Last interview I read says he much prefers the bad guy, and wants to do that for a while.

I think I also heard he wants to do a comedy.

As an actor, I kind of prefer the bad guy, too. You're the one who makes everything happen. You're the one with the most powerful motives/desires. You're the reason everything happens. It's fun.

And Denzel does it well.

Actually, when I think of Denzel, more than anything I think of that smile. And he gets such depth and range in to/out of that smile -- in Mighty Quinn, it's a smile that tells you what a upstanding, strong man he is, morally bound to do the right thing, even when it involves his friend.

In Training Day, that same smile let's you know you're in the presence of a powerful predator, and you're now basically fucked.