Yeah, he's talked in interviews about how he thought Lou Diamond Phillips was so fat, while they were filming.

Was that because he was doing that weirdo dieting to look like a heroin addict?

the other (heretofore known as the "right" camp, as it's the one I'm in) feels that it doesn't work as satire because the commentary needs to be read into it, rather than being there to be understood. For the right camp, it's a flat sci-fi film loaded with dull 2-D characters.

I cannot accept Starship Troopers as satire because I don't think it can actually be satire if you're in favor of the fetishized fascism presented in the movie, as the writer and director seem to be.

Although I do like to watch it and point and laugh, as I do with many baaaad big budget movies. ID4 falls into this category for me as well.

I was going to say, when people say to me "a Denzel Washington movie", my brain jumps to Courage Under Fire --

I'm kind of with Jesse and Nutty in the type of character that springs to mind when I think of Denzel films. Sure, it's maybe lately not supported by the facts, but people's feelings and impressions rarely are.

Also, if the Denzel movie departs from that upstanding-man-of-honor image, I'm not disappointed, but probably intruigued, and will still be interested in seeing it.

Then you're in luck, Sean. Last interview I read says he much prefers the bad guy, and wants to do that for a while.

I think I also heard he wants to do a comedy.

As an actor, I kind of prefer the bad guy, too. You're the one who makes everything happen. You're the one with the most powerful motives/desires. You're the reason everything happens. It's fun.

And Denzel does it well.

Actually, when I think of Denzel, more than anything I think of that smile. And he gets such depth and range in to/out of that smile -- in Mighty Quinn, it's a smile that tells you what a upstanding, strong man he is, morally bound to do the right thing, even when it involves his friend.

In Training Day, that same smile let's you know you're in the presence of a powerful predator, and you're now basically fucked.

I cannot accept Starship Troopers as satire because I don't think it can actually be satire if you're in favor of the fetishized fascism presented in the movie, as the writer and director seem to be.

In rebuttal, I offer: Doogie Howser. Dressed like a Nazi.

But actually, I sort of agree with your point.

I thought ST was just very funny. I loved the 90210-ish quality of the characters.

Was that because he was doing that weirdo dieting to look like a heroin addict?

Yep.

In rebuttal, I offer: Doogie Howser. Dressed like a Nazi.

That's one of the things that lets me watch the movie and laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh.

I would like to think that the actors in the movie thought they were making a satire of nazism/fascism (to the extent that some of them thought -- Caspar Van Diem doesn't strike me as the cereberal type), but in order to be satire, it needs to be intended on the part of the writer and director, which is where I don't believe it was intended as satire.

I don't know too much about the screenwriter, but I understand the director, Paul Verhoven, is very similar to John Milius in personality - uber-macho.

FWIW, Paul Verhoven has stated that ST is satire.